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Scrimble

  • Posts: 2038
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2014, 09:59:54 am »
Sets on Fleabay mate, singles too. (injectors)
The Renault specialist maltech is going to give me the good or bad news... If it is an injector would you suggest buying my own injectors and letting him for them?
How much should i be expecting if its just one injector with labor etc

the injectors will be seized into the head, good luck getting them out

C o z y

  • Posts: 7775
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2014, 10:04:13 am »
Change the fuel filter and then see what happens. Don't worry about it until you have done it.

I make a point of replacing the fuel filter every second service (every 2 years) even although the fuel filter has only been in the van for 7k.

I also change the airfilter every 3 years regardless of it's condition.



Spruce, anything we can do to lessen the chance of injectors seizing? Would hate a huge bill like that, if it could be avoided.
No still don't understand, I must be thick

Lee GLS

  • Posts: 3844
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2014, 11:09:21 am »
The injector seize because of a poorly designed weather strip that is not up to the job, it allows water to make it was in to the head and the injectors are lower than the top of the head so the water has nowhere to go other than down the side if the injectors.

Chances are your injectors will already be seized, but if you look on the vivaro forum I think the guys in there have suggestions on modifying the weather strip to stop future water ingress.

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2014, 12:55:23 pm »
I would be very unlucky if all have broke together, the mechanic thinks 1 mayby 2 at most! 1 has already been replaced previously.
These vans have always had injector faults.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13422
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2014, 03:59:01 pm »
It's a working part, all makes have injectors go at some point, I understand fords are the worst in terms of replacement as they cost £400 + each ( so I've been told ) that's the main reason for transits and other ford diesels being scrapped off.

As mrs smudger said, the maxus has serviceable bosh injectors, 2 were naff but reconditioned all 4 at £80 each (including the test) plus around £100 from the garage for removal and refitting

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

Lee GLS

  • Posts: 3844
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2014, 04:05:39 pm »
It's a working part, all makes have injectors go at some point, I understand fords are the worst in terms of replacement as they cost £400 + each ( so I've been told ) that's the main reason for transits and other ford diesels being scrapped off.

As mrs smudger said, the maxus has serviceable bosh injectors, 2 were naff but reconditioned all 4 at £80 each (including the test) plus around £100 from the garage for removal and refitting

Darran

You can get replacement injectors for ford for roughly £150 each new, but that is direct from diesel specialist rather than from fords.

The injectors are not made by the vehicle manufacture, they will usually be Delphi, Siemens, Bosch or Denso.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8431
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2014, 07:26:57 pm »
Change the fuel filter and then see what happens. Don't worry about it until you have done it.

I make a point of replacing the fuel filter every second service (every 2 years) even although the fuel filter has only been in the van for 7k.

I also change the airfilter every 3 years regardless of it's condition.



Spruce, anything we can do to lessen the chance of injectors seizing? Would hate a huge bill like that, if it could be avoided.

Hi Cozy,

Unfortunately no, there isn't anything you can do. Its a common problem across all makes and manufacturers, so it isn't just a Renault thing.
Lee has hinted at a cause, but as the problem is industry wide, there must also be other factors as well. Cylinder heads are made of alloy these days as it is much lighter that the old cast iron heads of yesteryear. The injector housings are steel and these two metals aren't good bed fellows. (Ask any Landrover owner.) Add heat and electric current to them and the 'chemical' reaction or corrosion between them is accelerated. (This issue of seized injectors has become more common with the new common rail diesel engines because of electric current used in the injector's operation and 'earthed' through the cylinder head.)

Whilst injector issues can happen at any point in a vehicle's life, the higher the mileage the more chance there is of issues with corrosion and seized components (glowplugs are also prone to seizure.)
This is one of the reasons why I would always advise to go for lower mileage second hand vehicles. Obviously as far as wear and tear are concerned a van that has done a lot of motorway miles is much better, but in instances such as these, it isn't always true.

The trouble is Cozy, emission standards (Euro 4, 5 and now 6 shortly) have meant some very complicated engine development has taken place which has made the basic diesel engine of 15 years ago very expensive to repair when things go wrong. How many common rail van's are listed on ebay at the moment for spares or repair which aren't body related faults?

A fellow windie had an 03 plate Merc Vito with 130m on the clock when one of his injectors failed. They broke it trying to get it out. In his case they were able to remove the cylinder head and they sent it away to a specialist. This specialist chap heats the head up very slowly to a temperature where the injector just drops out, but has the let it cool very slowly (over a couple of days) so the head doesn't warp. His bill was nearly 2k and he was without a van for 2 weeks.

He chose to repair it - I would have scrapped the van and put the money toward another van TBH. And this is what things have come to. Only you can make the decision on what to do at the time. If you started worrying about all the things that could go wrong and the cost to rectify them you will give yourself an ulcer.

For anyone in the UK AP Auto Diagnostics have a better clue than most dealer workshops have with regard to seized injectors.

http://www.apautodiagnostics.com/injector-removal-service

They aren't cheap but then the cost of removing that Vito injector was much more than 2k when you consider the amount of lost income whilst they messed on getting that injector out.

I would also be very cautious about buying replacement injectors cheap on ebay. As Lee says, good injectors are made by companies such as Delphi, Siemens, Bosch or Denso.

 

Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2014, 07:41:21 pm »
I told the Renault specialist to buy brand new bosche injector as i plan to keep my van for another year or 2.
Fortunatly i had a few hundered quid saved for a rainy day so im not to worried, also i have family who have savings so they could help as a last resort if needed.
It wont be long before im back happy working away in the sunshine :)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8431
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2014, 09:16:01 pm »
I can't help wondering when we will see petrol engines making a come back in vans due to the knock on effect of all these Euro emission standards.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2014, 09:22:20 pm »
I can't help wondering when we will see petrol engines making a come back in vans due to the knock on effect of all these Euro emission standards.
Quite likely! Especially now that petrol engines are catching up on diesel for economy... And performance is better

PoleKing

  • Posts: 8974
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2014, 10:25:34 pm »
I can't help wondering when we will see petrol engines making a come back in vans due to the knock on effect of all these Euro emission standards.
Quite likely! Especially now that petrol engines are catching up on diesel for economy... And performance is better

Performance isn't always better bud.
Depends on the car.
The petrol version of my car is pony.
Mate if mine has just got a 'Black Edition' TFSI A5.
It's got literally all the extras except-it's the 2.0 petrol engine.
Compared to the 57 A4 TDI before-the performance is woeful.
Mine ain't fast, but ain't slow. My last 2 cars have been diesel.
I think the only petrol I'd buy in the future would be an RS6.
www.LanesWindowCleaning.com

It's just the internet. Try not to worry.

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2014, 08:05:22 am »
I can't help wondering when we will see petrol engines making a come back in vans due to the knock on effect of all these Euro emission standards.
Quite likely! Especially now that petrol engines are catching up on diesel for economy... And performance is better

Performance isn't always better bud.
Depends on the car.
The petrol version of my car is pony.
Mate if mine has just got a 'Black Edition' TFSI A5.
It's got literally all the extras except-it's the 2.0 petrol engine.
Compared to the 57 A4 TDI before-the performance is woeful.
Mine ain't fast, but ain't slow. My last 2 cars have been diesel.
I think the only petrol I'd buy in the future would be an RS6.

I didnt mean performance in speed, as my mums has the bmw 335 and that beats the majorit of petrol cars.
I meant like the quiter engines and smoother ride( even though diesels are better now)
But the new bmw petrol engines can get upto 60mpg! Wich is unheard of for petrolatum usually.

My brother was looking at the rs6 before but preferred the c63 amg... And then the M4 came out so january hes getting one of them haha

Spruce

  • Posts: 8431
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2014, 08:19:20 am »
I can't help wondering when we will see petrol engines making a come back in vans due to the knock on effect of all these Euro emission standards.
Quite likely! Especially now that petrol engines are catching up on diesel for economy... And performance is better

Performance isn't always better bud.
Depends on the car.
The petrol version of my car is pony.
Mate if mine has just got a 'Black Edition' TFSI A5.
It's got literally all the extras except-it's the 2.0 petrol engine.
Compared to the 57 A4 TDI before-the performance is woeful.
Mine ain't fast, but ain't slow. My last 2 cars have been diesel.
I think the only petrol I'd buy in the future would be an RS6.

You're right. The petrol engine will never have the torque that the equivalent turbo diesel engine has.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

tlwcs

  • Posts: 2080
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2014, 09:19:17 am »
Hey, I'm amazed your fannying about with an old van, regardless of what and how long you expect it to last, or indeed your young business
From your posts and with the cars yours the family own or drive, there seems to be money about, or at least incomes to support these cars. But then it ain't for me to judge.
What I would say is a new one at 11k or £230 per month is a business asset. One that over time will be an old van just like the one your throwing money at. The only difference is you will know every mile that has been recorded.
Tony

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2014, 10:57:17 am »
Hey, I'm amazed your fannying about with an old van, regardless of what and how long you expect it to last, or indeed your young business
From your posts and with the cars yours the family own or drive, there seems to be money about, or at least incomes to support these cars. But then it ain't for me to judge.
What I would say is a new one at 11k or £230 per month is a business asset. One that over time will be an old van just like the one your throwing money at. The only difference is you will know every mile that has been recorded.
Tony
Im 22 year old and probs dont have the credit history to be buying vans on lease etc.
My family have very good jobs, but i didnt become self employed to rely on them.
I want to make something on my own with no debt (wich i have done so far) and i will carry on to do so until im in a position to buy luxary new vehicles.

dave0123

  • Posts: 3553
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2014, 08:04:19 pm »
Quote
Im 22 year old and probs dont have the credit history to be buying vans on lease etc.
My family have very good jobs, but i didnt become self employed to rely on them.
I want to make something on my own with no debt (wich i have done so far) and i will carry on to do so until im in a position to buy luxary new vehicles.

its fairly easy to get a van on finance as long as you have not had bad credit before? because if you dont pay they will just tow it away.. its different than a loan. i had one on finance at the age of 19 for window cleaning.. your 22? so what!!!!
Dave.

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2014, 04:20:21 pm »
Van repair update.
The mechanic said he checked all injectors all look quite new and good condition.
In the end it was a fuel rail not supplying enough fuel so he changed that with a reconditioned one and cost £150 all in! He even said my vans mint for its age.

Buzzing

Spruce

  • Posts: 8431
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2014, 07:07:58 pm »
Van repair update.
The mechanic said he checked all injectors all look quite new and good condition.

How can he see if they are in good condition?

In the end it was a fuel rail not supplying enough fuel so he changed that with a reconditioned one and cost £150 all in! He even said my vans mint for its age.

Buzzing

If they could check them that easily then the expensive injector testers (as Bosch Service Centers have) wouldn't be necessary.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2014, 07:39:23 pm »
Van repair update.
The mechanic said he checked all injectors all look quite new and good condition.

How can he see if they are in good condition?

In the end it was a fuel rail not supplying enough fuel so he changed that with a reconditioned one and cost £150 all in! He even said my vans mint for its age.

Buzzing

If they could check them that easily then the expensive injector testers (as Bosch Service Centers have) wouldn't be necessary.

He checked all the wires etc, then he said they was no pump back or something from each injector.
He is a specialist dealing in renaults... So i would suggest he knows a lot more than the average mechanic, also when i asked "if a injector was to fail how much would it cost" he replied " trust me them injectors have already been replaced at some point, you wont need to do then again any time soon"

He could of had my eyes out so i trust his opinion

Spruce

  • Posts: 8431
Re: Van broke part 2
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2014, 09:12:47 pm »
Van repair update.
The mechanic said he checked all injectors all look quite new and good condition.

How can he see if they are in good condition?

In the end it was a fuel rail not supplying enough fuel so he changed that with a reconditioned one and cost £150 all in! He even said my vans mint for its age.

Buzzing

If they could check them that easily then the expensive injector testers (as Bosch Service Centers have) wouldn't be necessary.

He checked all the wires etc, then he said they was no pump back or something from each injector.
He is a specialist dealing in renaults... So i would suggest he knows a lot more than the average mechanic, also when i asked "if a injector was to fail how much would it cost" he replied " trust me them injectors have already been replaced at some point, you wont need to do then again any time soon"

He could of had my eyes out so i trust his opinion

fair enough
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)