[Jakey boy]

Hi everyone, been trad 'for ever' but am very interested in getting a pole system, mainly because there are several buildings I simply can't do with ladders, and also the pros to a pole system seem to be worth it!

My questions are,

- what make if any is the best?

- I'd like a trailer system as I have a car for now, is that a good option? Don't want to buy a van just yet as that will impede budget.

- how big a water tank is needed for average days work 20-25 houses.

- are all in one systems a good idea?

- are carbon fiber poles the best for ease of use?

Any other info is welcome, I have no expeirence with pole systems. Other than seeing fellow windys using them here and there!

Am I Likley to be able to clean far more houses in the time I spend cleaning trad?

Thanks for any help guys!

[alfie11]

 what do you think the pros to a pole system are?

[Jakey boy]

3 story houses, offices and speed.

[p1w1]

Many different answers to your questions really mate...
i see your in colchester..so first things first you will need an ro system to make the water because the water in this area has a hi tds count.
I'd like a trailer system as I have a car for now, is that a good option? Don't want to buy a van just yet as that will impede budget.
ideally you would want a van, this way you can carry more water, you could use a car and use 25lt barrels to store the water in with a backpack or trolley system.
 how big a water tank is needed for average days work 20-25 houses
depends on how big the houses are but in general a 400-500lt tank would be needed really
are carbon fiber poles the best for ease of use?
absolutely without doubt, although there are other good poes on the market that would do for starting out with.
Am I Likley to be able to clean far more houses in the time I spend cleaning trad?
in short yes and safer too, but at first you probably wont be takes 3-4 months to get up to speed really.

would be worth your while popping into polorbrite in coggeshall mate, they will answer all your questions and you can see all the different types of equipment there is, they also sell pure water if you didn't want to make the plunge and buy a r/o system

paul

[Jakey boy]

Ok thanks for your help, yeah water is very hard here! I will look into those points, how much of dent in the water bill is average? It seems a heck of a lot of water per week? Bet water bills go through the roof?

[DG Cleaning]

I'd wait and save up for a van then diy the lot.
I don't use a controller and 25 houses would be about 300 litres but I've got a 400L tank just in case.
Im guessing with a controller 150L might be enough

[Jakey boy]

Ok, thanks for input, I thought a trailer would be good because I don't have to rely on any one car all the time, i.e if van broke down you'd be stuck, but with a trailer it can be hooked to a new car etc?

What are water bills like ?

[dazmond]

i would say a van is essential mate.

500L tank and frame

pumpbox and claber reel with 100m of microbore(6mm)

25 ft SLX(you can buy an extreme at a later date)

DI and RO(depending on water hardness etc)

you will spend thousands of pounds more a year with a wfp system,van costs etc but in my experience its worth the initial investment and ongoing running costs.

you have to change your whole approach to window cleaning.not just the actual cleaning but pricing,attitude,working in wet weather etc.

i went WFP over 4 years ago and im on course to earn £17,000-£18,000 more a year this year than i was 5 years ago on the ladders.i probably spend an extra 3 or 4 grand a year on expenses than i did when i was 100% trad.

youll be able to clean a few more houses a day without too much trouble once your up to speed(3-6 months)but the real speed comes on larger properties and the prices you can charge.i raised my prices immediately as soon as i changed over due to me cleaning frames and awkward windows.

you can also add conny roofs,f/s/g cleaning services to your business and solar panels.

its a big expense and a steep learning curve at first but if you ve already got plenty of work you ll reap the benefits in time.this wont happen overnight though.

almost forgot to mention!its far safer to clean upper windows from the ground!

ive picked up lots of good paying jobs  over the last few years BECAUSE i have WFP and know how to use it effectively.

[SeanK]

Dazmond how much of that £17000 to £18000 is down to WFP methods or how much of it is down to
things like being...
More motivated.
More organized.
Better pricing.
Older and wiser.
In a better place mentally and physically.
We have a guy here who is cleaning 25 properties a day using traditional methods is he really going to do
many more using a WFP system ?
Yes he might get a few more but the extra expense will soon eat into the extra income.
Jakey go for a wfp system because its a safer method but if your not making a good living doing between 20
and 25 properties a day then wfp wont change it.

[marc]

Hi jakeyboy What works for one doesn't always work for another i would guess of all wfp users on here 85% ish prob are van mount , I and many others started out with a trolley then moved over to a van mount , but just coz most have van mounts doesn't mean you have to most that have a van also have a car too, a few just have a van but if you need a car and are happy pulling a trailer round then look in to that maybe you can't have both and don't just want a van even if you start with a trailer you can change to a van as and when you want I have a couple of trailers that i can use but most of the time i use my van as i personally think pulling the hose out the van is the easiest way of working but i recently set up a van mount diy system for someone on here (hi Dave) lol and after all the trouble of doing that i had to take it all out and set him up with a trolley system and he would rather work that way so you really need to find out ya self good luck one other thing everyone to there own but you don't need to spend ten or twenty grand on a system it all boils down to the water not how much you spend best of luck Marc

[tlwcs]

what do you think the pros to a pole system are?

Safety? 

[Mike #1]

L200 pick up best of both worlds 5 seats and everything in the loadbed , A trailer not a great idea i struggle to park at times in certain streets imagine trying to park up with a trailer PAIN IN THE ASS .

DO NOT buy a trolley system you will only regret it and spend a load more money longterm and probs put your back out lifting containers I speak from expirence . Mike

[dazmond]

Dazmond how much of that £17000 to £18000 is down to WFP methods or how much of it is down to
things like being...
More motivated.
More organized.
Better pricing.
Older and wiser.
In a better place mentally and physically.
We have a guy here who is cleaning 25 properties a day using traditional methods is he really going to do
many more using a WFP system ?
Yes he might get a few more but the extra expense will soon eat into the extra income.
Jakey go for a wfp system because its a safer method but if your not making a good living doing between 20
and 25 properties a day then wfp wont change it

saving up and investing in WFP was the platform to provide a better service to my customers.theres no way i could clean loads of the accounts i clean today properly if i was 100% trad.half the windows wouldnt be reachable.

if he s going to clean the same old work at the same prices,not offer add on services then true he ll be worse off financially over the course of the year.

the thing is WFP allows you to clean properties that would otherwise be impossible to clean properly off ladders in a good time at a good price.

ive found i attract better customers since i switched to wfp.coupled with a sign written van,logod uniform,professional business cards,leaflets etc.its made a big difference.

of course i work hard and i work more in wet weather than i ever did on ladders simply because you can clean windows in the rain with wfp with minimum problems.

[dazmond]

if he s a trad cleaner like i was for 17 years who mainly cleans the glass and sills he ll have to put his prices up.thats what i did anyway as with wfp frames and doors get cleaned too.overall a much more thorough clean than  trad.

the houses that were well priced where i did actually clean the frames by hand i found that i could shave at least 5 mins off a house after a few months WFP easily.more on larger properties.

examples

i have a commercial job that i priced up at £60 5 years ago.it used to take me 2 hours off ladders.this job now takes me 45 MINS WITH WFP every 6 weeks.

a run of small cottages with mainly georgian windows.used to take me 2 hours for £50.now takes just over an hour with WFP.

loads of other examples but you get my drift...

[SeanK]

Dazmond 99% of the traditional guys in my area clean the glass only and have been working that way
for years.
They very rarely lose a customer to a wfp newbie.
Yes in the time they take to clean the glass I would have the frames and sills cleaned as well.
These guys are not the £4 per property types they charge top money for their service so the best I would be
getting price wise is the same as what they are charging.
If one of these guys was to ask me if they should convert to wfp and what would be the benefits be to their business
the only honest answer that I could give them is that its safer.
As for hard to reach windows yes there are some that I couldn't get if wasn't wfp pole, but to be honest if I had to do it over again I wouldn't touch them as they are all joint busters even with a full carbon pole.
I think some on here see wfp through rose tinted glasses. 

[Jakey boy]

Ok thanks for input everyone, I was thinking wfp more for commercial use as it opens up more options, there are some people who would still want trad so I'd be doing them trad. I have a lot of houses with the small square windows, and was thinking wfp would be twice as fast, rather than scrimming them for what seems like 'forever' also the trad way on small square windows isn't the best job, especially in the summer, streaks and dust marks are hard to get rid of. I was hoping wfp would solve these issues?

So a van seems the way to go, I'll look into that idea. Ill see what sort of budget I need and work towards it.

[Pete Thompson]

Ok thanks for input everyone, I was thinking wfp more for commercial use as it opens up more options, there are some people who would still want trad so I'd be doing them trad. I have a lot of houses with the small square windows, and was thinking wfp would be twice as fast, rather than scrimming them for what seems like 'forever' also the trad way on small square windows isn't the best job, especially in the summer, streaks and dust marks are hard to get rid of. I was hoping wfp would solve these issues?

So a van seems the way to go, I'll look into that idea. Ill see what sort of budget I need and work towards it.

My tuppenceworth, for what it's worth.

When I was looking to get into waterfed, I too originally thought "I'll spend a few hundred quid on a trolley or a trailer  and use it for inaccessible windows and 3rd stories etc"

But after a LOT of researching, humming and hahhing, and help off here too, I decided to go for a small van (berlingo at the time) and DIY the rest.

So I bought a van, quite old, but low miles, and a tank and pump etc.  Cobbled it all together and away I went.

The first thing I found is that WFP does a better job, a much better one.  Cleaning the frames, and doing fiddly windows like leaded and (as you said) georgian is now a breeze, whereas it used to take ages. 

And it's easier work.  Climbing up and down ladders is hard work, and you don't realise quite how hard it is until you start with WFP.  It's like wfp is cheating.

After about 3 months, when I really started to get the hang of it, and setting up was more routine (learning where to put the hoses at each house/building) it was approximately twice as fast.  Hard to believe I know, but yes twice as fast.

And by this time I completely stopped using ladders.  No matter if customers wanted it etc, I told them that WFP is the safest way and that's all i'm doing now.  (My advice is don't ever offer trad to any customer, tell them its WFP for safety reasons.  Believe me, once you go WFP you will NOT want to have anything to do with ladders again)

The only thing letting me down was my cobbled together system was quite unreliable.

So about a year and a half ago I decided to bite the bullet, get a better van and a professionally built system.

Got a VW Caddy (absolutely fantastic vans, highly reccomend) and a 400 litre Pure2o System.  Why pure2o?  well main reasons are that it's built by Ionic Systems, who are the best company out there by a long way (IMO) with Pure2o being their sort of 'value brand'.  Plus they have a price promise so they'll match or beat anyone else's quote.

I also opted to get the van Speed Liner, which is not strictly necessary but nice to have.  That's a sort of waterproof spray-on hard wearing coating on the inside of the van.  So the van floor and walls are protected.  That cost an extra £350 I think, but well worth it IMO.

So anyway, got my pure2o system fitted down at ionics factory and everything works perfectly now.  Never lost a single day (or even a single minute!) of work time due to anything failing.  The van too is great to drive, I love my caddy.

So, knowing what I know now, with the benefit of hindsight, if I were doing it again I would skip the old van and cobbled together diy system, and just go straight to the decent van and professionally built and installed system.  Simple, hassle free and you're up and running.

Yes it costs more, but the extra cost is massively outweighed by the lack of hassle.  Just my opinion.

For the sake of your budget, I'll tell you what I spent:
Van: £6,600
speedline: £350 (not strictly necessary but nice to have)
400 Litre Pure2o system (hard water) : £2990 approx - can't remember exactly (including fitting and vat)
Poles : about £360

Lots on here will say "save money and go DIY"  "Go DIY and you will also know how to fix it if something goes wrong" etc etc.  Sure you probably can save money but with a lot of hassle.  In my opinion, it's better just to pay the money and get a ready built system professionally installed.

[tlwcs]

Ok thanks for input everyone, I was thinking wfp more for commercial use as it opens up more options, there are some people who would still want trad so I'd be doing them trad. I have a lot of houses with the small square windows, and was thinking wfp would be twice as fast, rather than scrimming them for what seems like 'forever' also the trad way on small square windows isn't the best job, especially in the summer, streaks and dust marks are hard to get rid of. I was hoping wfp would solve these issues?

So a van seems the way to go, I'll look into that idea. Ill see what sort of budget I need and work towards it.

My tuppenceworth, for what it's worth.

When I was looking to get into waterfed, I too originally thought "I'll spend a few hundred quid on a trolley or a trailer  and use it for inaccessible windows and 3rd stories etc"

But after a LOT of researching, humming and hahhing, and help off here too, I decided to go for a small van (berlingo at the time) and DIY the rest.

So I bought a van, quite old, but low miles, and a tank and pump etc.  Cobbled it all together and away I went.

The first thing I found is that WFP does a better job, a much better one.  Cleaning the frames, and doing fiddly windows like leaded and (as you said) georgian is now a breeze, whereas it used to take ages. 

And it's easier work.  Climbing up and down ladders is hard work, and you don't realise quite how hard it is until you start with WFP.  It's like wfp is cheating.

After about 3 months, when I really started to get the hang of it, and setting up was more routine (learning where to put the hoses at each house/building) it was approximately twice as fast.  Hard to believe I know, but yes twice as fast.

And by this time I completely stopped using ladders.  No matter if customers wanted it etc, I told them that WFP is the safest way and that's all i'm doing now.  (My advice is don't ever offer trad to any customer, tell them its WFP for safety reasons.  Believe me, once you go WFP you will NOT want to have anything to do with ladders again)

The only thing letting me down was my cobbled together system was quite unreliable.

So about a year and a half ago I decided to bite the bullet, get a better van and a professionally built system.

Got a VW Caddy (absolutely fantastic vans, highly reccomend) and a 400 litre Pure2o System.  Why pure2o?  well main reasons are that it's built by Ionic Systems, who are the best company out there by a long way (IMO) with Pure2o being their sort of 'value brand'.  Plus they have a price promise so they'll match or beat anyone else's quote.

I also opted to get the van Speed Liner, which is not strictly necessary but nice to have.  That's a sort of waterproof spray-on hard wearing coating on the inside of the van.  So the van floor and walls are protected.  That cost an extra £350 I think, but well worth it IMO.

So anyway, got my pure2o system fitted down at ionics factory and everything works perfectly now.  Never lost a single day (or even a single minute!) of work time due to anything failing.  The van too is great to drive, I love my caddy.

So, knowing what I know now, with the benefit of hindsight, if I were doing it again I would skip the old van and cobbled together diy system, and just go straight to the decent van and professionally built and installed system.  Simple, hassle free and you're up and running.

Yes it costs more, but the extra cost is massively outweighed by the lack of hassle.  Just my opinion.

For the sake of your budget, I'll tell you what I spent:
Van: £6,600
speedline: £350 (not strictly necessary but nice to have)
400 Litre Pure2o system (hard water) : £2990 approx - can't remember exactly (including fitting and vat)
Poles : about £360

Lots on here will say "save money and go DIY"  "Go DIY and you will also know how to fix it if something goes wrong" etc etc.  Sure you probably can save money but with a lot of hassle.  In my opinion, it's better just to pay the money and get a ready built system professionally installed.

My tuppenceworth, for what it's worth.
The time it took you to write that is worth a fortune, brilliant advice.
Don't agree with everything, pro system, but still great advice to anyone thinking of trad to fed.
Tony

[Jakey boy]

Yeah that's super advice, thanks for the details, I'll take all that on board!

[DG Cleaning]

Depends how you set up your diy system I suppose when it comes to reliability.
I'm 2 years in with my diy system and it's yet to fail on anything.
Keep it simple.
All I have in my system is battery, tank, pump, twin di's reel, pole.
There's not much that could fail, the pump is most likely but my second hand shurflo is still going strong and it's the same pump your likely to have in a fitted system.