[dannymack]

Just a thought guys, as now alot of you guys & girls that dominate residential work where you now get paid via bacs or cheques as its easier than the old days where some still go collecting. Are you better off as I know it's time and fuel going back out collecting cash but surely you are losing out as bacs and cheques going thru your bank account, showing on statements which means you gotta show all your earnings or most of your earnings bigger tax bill 😳wouldn't you be better off collecting cash and putting a lil in bank ie smaller tax bill 😜
A
Around 98% of my work is commercial and am vat reg so everything goes thru the books 😞

[PoleKing]

All mine goes through the books bud.
Except my tenner from this week.
I'm paranoid about HRMC.

[Jonny 87]

Ditto.

Everything goes through the books.

I used to spend Monday nights and Friday nights collecting.

Now I finish my work, get home and sort the van out for the next day, and by then the money has already started to come in. No extra fuel costs and my evenings are my own.

Best thing I ever did.

[dannymack]

Pmsl Darren, yes that's the best thing you can't beat is getting home and not having to go back out collecting. Also must be a pain going back out to find peeps are still out !!! Also more time spent with the family which is precious time you can't get back which you realise as you get older time do fly 👳👳👳

[Positivity]

Hi dannymack
HMRC have been given loads of dosh  to target poor devils like us at the bottom of the food chain while ignoring Amazon and Google and big corporations etc...
They are targeting cash repeat businesses like taxis, hairdressers, gardeners, window cleaners etc...
A lot of accountants are now selling insurance against being investigated by HMRC - they can investigate you with as much power as the police - confiscating books and computers etc.. and if they want can appoint an independent auditor and charge you for the service!!!!!

[Dave Mills]

Just a thought guys, as now alot of you guys & girls that dominate residential work where you now get paid via bacs or cheques as its easier than the old days where some still go collecting. Are you better off as I know it's time and fuel going back out collecting cash but surely you are losing out as bacs and cheques going thru your bank account, showing on statements which means you gotta show all your earnings or most of your earnings bigger tax bill 😳wouldn't you be better off collecting cash and putting a lil in bank ie smaller tax bill 😜
A
Around 98% of my work is commercial and am vat reg so everything goes thru the books 😞

To rephrase: Is it better to do BACS/cheques or to fiddle HMRC?  You serious?

[ascjim]

people need to brush up on the law

[Jonny 87]

people need to brush up on the law

+1

There is less chance of a window cleaner being investigated now than ever before.

It is being done by risk. So for example;

Joe blogs window cleaning
They are claiming their profitable income is £20,000 per year (figures for arguments sake)
In reality if they are fiddling the books it's not going to be anymore than double.

So potential gain to hmrc is £20,000 minus the cost of tax investigators and wages etc which is in the thousands for a detailed investigation. So potentially hmrc will gain 20 k. AT MOST!

Now you have a warehouse business which claims it's profits are £100,000.
Potential gain for hmrc? A lot more than a window cleaner.

Yes window cleaners do get investigated, but the average sole trader is unlikely to get investigated now it's based on risk.

It's hardly worth their time bothering with us small fish.

Unless of course your making the big bucks.

[PoleKing]

people need to brush up on the law

+1

There is less chance of a window cleaner being investigated now than ever before.

It is being done by risk. So for example;

Joe blogs window cleaning
They are claiming their profitable income is £20,000 per year (figures for arguments sake)
In reality if they are fiddling the books it's not going to be anymore than double.

So potential gain to hmrc is £20,000 minus the cost of tax investigators and wages etc which is in the thousands for a detailed investigation. So potentially hmrc will gain 20 k. AT MOST!

Now you have a warehouse business which claims it's profits are £100,000.
Potential gain for hmrc? A lot more than a window cleaner.

Yes window cleaners do get investigated, but the average sole trader is unlikely to get investigated now it's based on risk.

It's hardly worth their time bothering with us small fish.

Unless of course your making the big bucks.

Not sure I agree with your reasoning...
Do you have anything to back that up or just your thoughts?
I'd be interested to read if you have.

[Jonny 87]

My accountant has links to hmrc. 

Why don't you agree with reasoning?

[andyM]

people need to brush up on the law

+1

There is less chance of a window cleaner being investigated now than ever before.

It is being done by risk. So for example;

Joe blogs window cleaning
They are claiming their profitable income is £20,000 per year (figures for arguments sake)
In reality if they are fiddling the books it's not going to be anymore than double.

So potential gain to hmrc is £20,000 minus the cost of tax investigators and wages etc which is in the thousands for a detailed investigation. So potentially hmrc will gain 20 k. AT MOST!

Now you have a warehouse business which claims it's profits are £100,000.
Potential gain for hmrc? A lot more than a window cleaner.

Yes window cleaners do get investigated, but the average sole trader is unlikely to get investigated now it's based on risk.

It's hardly worth their time bothering with us small fish.

Unless of course your making the big bucks.

"They are claiming their profitable income is £20,000 per year (figures for arguments sake)
In reality if they are fiddling the books it's not going to be anymore than double.

So potential gain to hmrc is £20,000 minus the cost of tax investigators and wages etc which is in the thousands for a detailed investigation. So potentially hmrc will gain 20 k. AT MOST!"

I must be even thicker than I first realised but to be honest I cannot begin to understand how you worked that one out??!! 

[hotsteam]

You do know they can go back 7 years or more so now we are talking £140,000 at least. 

I think it would be worth chasing

[Jonny 87]

It does make sense if you read it slowly.

Someone is very rarely going to commit serious tax evasion of more than 50%. Hence the figures of if you claim you earn 20k then at most it would be 40k if you have lied on a tax return.

Yes that's £140,000 for the window cleaner hmrc could get back IF they can prove things. Very hard to do with cash in hand stuff.

Compared to £1,200,000 of another business?

Which would you rather if you were hmrc?

By the way I'm 100% legit. All my customers pay me either bacs or cheques, before someone accuses me.lol

To put it basically.....HMRC no longer do random tax investigations. They work on RISK. They have more chance of getting a bigger payout from a company with large turn over than your average window cleaner.

That info is correct as of 12 months ago anyway.

Everyone should just pay their dues anyway and it leads to a less stress full life.

[PoleKing]

My accountant has links to hmrc. 

Why don't you agree with reasoning?

lol-all accountants have links to HRMC.

Just don't. A mate of mine got investigated twice. both times they got nothing on him as he is kosher.
he was turning over under £30k but that was over 5 years ago.
i do think your argument makes sense, i just don't agree with it...

[Jonny 87]

My accountant has links to hmrc. 

Why don't you agree with reasoning?

lol-all accountants have links to HRMC.

Just don't. A mate of mine got investigated twice. both times they got nothing on him as he is kosher.
he was turning over under £30k but that was over 5 years ago.
i do think your argument makes sense, i just don't agree with it...

Each to their own mate.

Things might have changed by now. That was last year.

When I say he has links to hmrc I didn't just mean he sends them a letter once a year.lol

That info came straight from the donkey's nose. I mean horses mouth.

[andyM]

It does make sense if you read it slowly.

Someone is very rarely going to commit serious tax evasion of more than 50%. Hence the figures of if you claim you earn 20k then at most it would be 40k if you have lied on a tax return.

Yes that's £140,000 for the window cleaner hmrc could get back IF they can prove things. Very hard to do with cash in hand stuff.

Compared to £1,200,000 of another business?

Which would you rather if you were hmrc?

By the way I'm 100% legit. All my customers pay me either bacs or cheques, before someone accuses me.lol

To put it basically.....HMRC no longer do random tax investigations. They work on RISK. They have more chance of getting a bigger payout from a company with large turn over than your average window cleaner.

That info is correct as of 12 months ago anyway.

Everyone should just pay their dues anyway and it leads to a less stress full life.

What im unsure about Jonny is where you said in the example that a window cleaner turning over £40,000 was only declaring £20,000.
"So potential gain to hmrc is £20,000 minus the cost of tax investigators and wages etc which is in the thousands for a detailed investigation. So potentially hmrc will gain 20 k. AT MOST!"

Are you saying that HMRC will seize all of the undeclared £20,000?
Im not trying to be argumentative with you, but in my view I assumed in your example the window cleaner under investigation would then be due to pay 20% tax plus nic's on the undeclared profits plus any fines and investigation fees levied by HMRC?
The HMRC do not bear the cost of the investigation, the person being investigated will be liable for it if found to be guilty.
It would be costly to the window cleaner if found to be evading tax don't get me wrong, but I do not understand how you came out with the £20,000 figure?

ps. Im not smart enough to try and outsmart the tax man so I don't even bother, I put all the work I do into the George program which makes it easy when doing accounts.
Then if they ever wire me up to the lie detector I know I've got nothing I need to try and hide!     

[PoleKing]

It does make sense if you read it slowly.

Someone is very rarely going to commit serious tax evasion of more than 50%. Hence the figures of if you claim you earn 20k then at most it would be 40k if you have lied on a tax return.

Yes that's £140,000 for the window cleaner hmrc could get back IF they can prove things. Very hard to do with cash in hand stuff.

Compared to £1,200,000 of another business?

Which would you rather if you were hmrc?

By the way I'm 100% legit. All my customers pay me either bacs or cheques, before someone accuses me.lol

To put it basically.....HMRC no longer do random tax investigations. They work on RISK. They have more chance of getting a bigger payout from a company with large turn over than your average window cleaner.

That info is correct as of 12 months ago anyway.

Everyone should just pay their dues anyway and it leads to a less stress full life.

What im unsure about Jonny is where you said in the example that a window cleaner turning over £40,000 was only declaring £20,000.
"So potential gain to hmrc is £20,000 minus the cost of tax investigators and wages etc which is in the thousands for a detailed investigation. So potentially hmrc will gain 20 k. AT MOST!"

Are you saying that HMRC will seize all of the undeclared £20,000?
Im not trying to be argumentative with you, but in my view I assumed in your example the window cleaner under investigation would then be due to pay 20% tax plus nic's on the undeclared profits plus any fines and investigation fees levied by HMRC?
The HMRC do not bear the cost of the investigation, the person being investigated will be liable for it if found to be guilty.
It would be costly to the window cleaner if found to be evading tax don't get me wrong, but I do not understand how you came out with the £20,000 figure?

ps. Im not smart enough to try and outsmart the tax man so I don't even bother, I put all the work I do into the George program which makes it easy when doing accounts.
Then if they ever wire me up to the lie detector I know I've got nothing I need to try and hide!     

You should worry more about Jeremy Kyle young man

[Jonny 87]

It does make sense if you read it slowly.

Someone is very rarely going to commit serious tax evasion of more than 50%. Hence the figures of if you claim you earn 20k then at most it would be 40k if you have lied on a tax return.

Yes that's £140,000 for the window cleaner hmrc could get back IF they can prove things. Very hard to do with cash in hand stuff.

Compared to £1,200,000 of another business?

Which would you rather if you were hmrc?

By the way I'm 100% legit. All my customers pay me either bacs or cheques, before someone accuses me.lol

To put it basically.....HMRC no longer do random tax investigations. They work on RISK. They have more chance of getting a bigger payout from a company with large turn over than your average window cleaner.

That info is correct as of 12 months ago anyway.

Everyone should just pay their dues anyway and it leads to a less stress full life.

What im unsure about Jonny is where you said in the example that a window cleaner turning over £40,000 was only declaring £20,000.
"So potential gain to hmrc is £20,000 minus the cost of tax investigators and wages etc which is in the thousands for a detailed investigation. So potentially hmrc will gain 20 k. AT MOST!"

Are you saying that HMRC will seize all of the undeclared £20,000?
Im not trying to be argumentative with you, but in my view I assumed in your example the window cleaner under investigation would then be due to pay 20% tax plus nic's on the undeclared profits plus any fines and investigation fees levied by HMRC?
The HMRC do not bear the cost of the investigation, the person being investigated will be liable for it if found to be guilty.
It would be costly to the window cleaner if found to be evading tax don't get me wrong, but I do not understand how you came out with the £20,000 figure?

ps. Im not smart enough to try and outsmart the tax man so I don't even bother, I put all the work I do into the George program which makes it easy when doing accounts.
Then if they ever wire me up to the lie detector I know I've got nothing I need to try and hide!     

Your right there, I didnt explain that very well. It would be less tax that they were owed. Not the full 20k.

It makes even more sense when I get the figures right. Lol.