[Neil Williams]

Just fished the new one out of the post box..... wow just 3 carpet cleaners in there to cover Basingstoke, Alton & Farnborough
Even the page at the front with the vouchers on runs to JUST ONE voucher out of a possible 10

[Allan Simmons]

Just booked a small advert in the ones that cover our areas as we find the older clients still use them and we do get them tell us they found our number again in the Phonebook this time they have called.

It's worth telling the rep you're cancelling altogether though, as they then MASSIVELY drop the price, then still squirm and they'll drop the price again.  They have unofficial instructions to sell at virtually any price.

Al.

[Kev Loomes]

I noticed the same Neil, bit like the YP and TL. I had a call from one of the BT guys trying to sell me space and he was the rudest person I have ever spoken to (well, probably not THE rudest but you get the gist).

It was like 'so you DONT want extra work then Kevin...blah blah'. Talk about pushy. When he got the message he said something really abrubt and slammed the phone down before I could asnwer. Nice

I guess they are deperate but being pushy and rude aint gonna get them anywhere.

Cheers

Kev

[Allan Simmons]

Hi Kev

We had the opposite, the rep she was all creepy creepy, couldn't do enough to try and get the business, REALLY SICKLY!  They're on a hiding to nothing bless em!

Still a spend of just under £1200 across the areas last year generated just over £3100 of new work and made sure we got the calls and a little under £2800 of repeat and referral work where the client said they got our number from the BT Phonebook or Classified this time, a reasonable return ration.

The demographic were all older clients.  The interesting thing is, when you look at where those repeat clients got us from originally it was almost always BT Phonebook or BTClassified, some of them going back 11 years.  Guess for the older clients old habits die hard.

Al.

[Kev Loomes]

Hi Alan

You could well be right, and I think demographics do come in to it, but then there are 'hot' areas that tend to keep moving!

I think we can all agree though, that the books are a dying breed and this will only get more and more less used in the future. Some young people (if not all!) have never even used a book and are of the internet era. They only go online to obtain services - and these are the people of the future whilst the older generation unfortunately pass on.

The figures (which I have seen somewhere) back this up, so I suppose we should stand up and take notice. But in the meantime, if anyone get a decent return from a book then they should stick with it.

Cheers

Kev

[Allan Simmons]

Yeah, the paper books have the same problem as the church, an ageing user and a tough sell.

They key is to know your numbers. If we didn't ask every repeat or referral client WHERE they actually got the number from and record it we would possibly have stopped the adverts as we would have thought we'd only got the 'new business' value of sales.  Because we know the client is a referral or reepeat AND they got us from BT Phonebook this time that additional info means we know we would possibly have LOST the repeat and referral sales to another cleaner who was still in  the book.  Which is why I keep coming back to the good old notepads for clients, they stop people needing to go back to their paper references and they turn up everywhere.

Al.

[Kev Loomes]

Hi Allan

I think most CC's know the importance of knowing where they get their custies from, but thats another story.

But back to the BT book, like I say people need to be a bit weary of the salesmen when they call, cos all they want to do is 'sell to you. I feel for newbies to this industry but its like any sales calls, they are under pressure to sell, and you are under pressure to buy.

Cheers

Kev

[Allan Simmons]

Yeah, as I said earlier, our experience, and that of others I know who have advertised with BT and other paper directories, is initially refuse to advertise then wait for them to make on offer, still refuse or ask for the smallest advert, and they will always do a deal at a massive discount.  I guess I'm saying you just have to be ruthless with them if you do want to advertise.

For the new guys just starting I would probably not bother doing paper diectories, but with an established client base we need to be where we know existing clients are looking.

I think everyone appreciates it's important to know WHERE you get your customers from but it's equally as important, and often not realised, you also need to know HOW they find you too.  Recording Referrals and repeat are great but unless you know how they got your number you can't target your marketing as effectively or accurately measure what's working.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

To add I'm having a renaissance with YP's it's not setting things alight but it's only been out a month ish and I've got just over half the costs back although it may not keep up it's a nice starter 9 out of 10 are of or near pension age and their not quite as price conscience.

Shaun

[Allan Simmons]

Hi Shaun

We're definitely not pulling any trees up from directories but there's always a bit of a spur in response when the new book comes out too, before it makes it's way into the recycle box.  Yeah the older clients have more disposable as most don't have a huge mortgage / kids etc.

What is interesting is that we use similar types of YP adverts and at a time when most others are pulling out of the directories completely the longer established guys like you and us are hanging in and still making it work, probably because exisiting long established clients are the ones who still use directories.

There is a great book, well worth studying, "The 50+ Market", and a great web resource at http://www.the50plusmarket.com which is all about marketing to the baby boomer generation.  Highly recommended.

Al.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Although I'm telling your grandma to suck eggs but average price ticket helps enormously when paying for adverts, looking for mass jobs at £20 a go and yp is going to run at a loss there just isn't the volume of readers anymore in that medium.

There is a bigger picture though as old/former or should I say lapsed customers can go back to the book as the mind always plays the trick of where you were last found.

Shaun

[Allan Simmons]

Exactly.

[Kev Loomes]

I think everyone appreciates it's important to know WHERE you get your customers from but it's equally as important, and often not realised, you also need to know HOW they find you too.  Recording Referrals and repeat are great but unless you know how they got your number you can't target your marketing as effectively or accurately measure what's working.

This is standard stuff Allan in the marketing world, but you'd be surprised how many people are unaware of this - but you know its horses for courses and people want to run their business how they want to run it and rightly so.

Cheers

Kev

[Allan Simmons]

Exactly.

[Ian Gourlay]

I got  mine for half the price I payed last year

[clinton]

Bet they will be doing even more discount now if you push them..