[Sir Squeaky]

Nice post Tosh.
It's not personal with anyone, I just hear too many complaints from customers and I don't want all the problems and the extra to do before or after work.

I don't do £30 all the time, probably closer to £23.
My prices are generally a lot less than your's, I'm just a fast worker.

If I had your prices I could do £30.
£7 for terraces in Lord Eldon?!!! Less than 10 mins work!! Cheeky. 

Fair play to you!
I'll try to catch up with you in the week.

Not that you'll ever get me to put myself through all that.....

Rog.

[Terry_Burrows]

 ;)by the time you pole people get ya poles hoses signs we would be done gone and on to the next job,home feet up drinking through a straw and a umbrella and in the winter we wont have a dirty great ICE CUBE in the back :

[Moderator David@stives]

Terry

you may be quick ,but you are getting on a bit now and getting a bit bigger around the middle.   
Do you think you will still be as quick in 10 years time ?

Dave

ps no insult intended   

[Terry_Burrows]

no insult taken ;Dthe fact is dave my time now is very fast,will I break it not sure,can I break it, YES as long as I go out of the world as NO ONE
thats all that matters ;)as for me :-\I will be triming down very shortly and losing a stone or more,thats not easy as axmas is coming ;)as we all know

[Moderator David@stives]

Terry

On the world record do you have to detail the edges and do you have to make sure every inch is clean .
What is the criteria to have a succesful result in cleanliness

Dave

[dai]

Whatever the eventual outcome as to bannig ladders or not, there is one very imporant principle. The law must apply equally to all. It should be transparent.
You can't have laws that say, it's ok for jack to use a ladder because he's a painter, and they havn't invented a machine yet that can prepare and paint the surface, and then prosecute Jill for using a ladder for window cleaning because someone invented a WFP.
Where the regs use words like "and having considerd all safer options". They transfer the onus onto the guy doing the job. What one  person may consider as a safer option may be regarded as a greater risk to another.
 I guess most of you guys like me hate getting off the ladder and going on a pitched foof to clean a window. To me I'm safe untill I get on the roof, then I worry. Are the tiles  nailed in or one could go from under my foot as I stand on it. A big sigh of relief when you make it safely back to the ladder. We'v all been their at sometime or other. I have a mate who is a roofer. He tells me the exact opposite. He never feels safe going up the ladder. He's happy once he gets on the roof.
 I think this illustrates my point perfectly.  What he considered as a safer option is totally different to me.
Now if I am to be prosecuted, it will be because my idea of safe practice differs from anothers. Forget window cleaning for a minute. This act applies to all who work at heights. OK We have WFP, The other trades do not have a totally new system of working.
The new law must be written in a clear way that all of us can understand.
Ban ladders, Ok ban ladders. We would then know exactly where we stood.
You can't prosecute someone because he considered a different option as safer.
The law must be applied equally to all. Our justice system is based on this principle. DAI

[tomo]

i spoke to an electrician today who is also a customer i explained the change over to wfp and he said he was suprised it had taken this long for us window cleaners to have to comply like the rest of them;

 they have to use platforms or scaffolding,  ladders are a BIG no no. The same for a plumber who was fitting a fire place and had to get access to a roof he too had heard of the new regs and said the alternative for them was a platform or scaff the same for painters . The point is its the COST that bothers them all the most : not their saftey.

Tom

[alan_t]

well i'll certainly carry on using ladders.

[JohnL]

Tomo

'' for them was a platform or scaff the same for painters ''

regretably tomo that may be untrue.

It seems at this stage the WaHR is being interpreted from different viewpoints.

 I am a painter and decorator and the association has advised :-

  ''  There is a misconception that ladders are banned by the Work at Height Regulations. This is not the case. The preferred use of ladders is for light work of short duration when other equipment is not suitable.

The primary objective of the new legislation is to eliminate at height where possible, to ensure that ALL work at height is performed safely and that equipment has been approriately selected, whether it is from a mobile access tower, scaffold or ladder. Carrying out a risk assessment is the obvious way to ensure you comply with the new regulations.

The WAHR requires employers and the self employed to put in place arrangements for:

 . Eliminatimg or minimising risks from work at height.
 . Organising and planning work at height.
 . Selecting suitable work for equipment to perform work at height.
 . Ensuring training and abilities of users.


                  Ladders must be suitable for the task undertaken.

 . Leaning ladders should be placed at the correct angle.
 . Leaning ladders should be secured to prevent slippage.
 . Ladders should be placed on a firm level surface with the rungs horizontal.
 . Users should face the ladder at all times whilst climbing or dismounting.
 . Stepladders should not be used sideways-on where sideways loads are supplied.
 . Only one person should climb or work from a ladder or a stepladder.
 . Do not overreach.
 . Ladders should be stored correctly.
 . Ladders should be checked regularly before setting up and inspected regularly.


Be aware that the '' two metre rule '' has not been included within WAHR. This means that measures have to be taken at any height where there is a risk of a fall liable to cause personal injury. If you are already following good practice for work at height, it is not necessary to change what you are doing.

                         REMEMBER:   SAFELY,  SENSIBLY,  SECURELY

                                                         --------------------


That was received from the association this year and has not been revised or amended since.

So as I said earlier, it seems the regulations are being read differently by different people and some to suit their own needs.

Sorry to impose this view but as a long time lurker and part-time w/c I find these forums and discussions of immense value, and I am fairly sure this will lead to even more interesting reading 

JohnL

[rosskesava]

I do not understand what is so complex. No where in the WAHL's does it say that ladders are banned.

If they are to be used then they are to be used safely. It is so mind numbingly simple that I do not understand what the problem is.

I think there is, on this forum, the doomsday machine postings by some that one step on a ladder means instant death. Mix into that the wfp versus traditional methods (why the competition?) and then add into that postings by members who read into the law just what they want to because wfp is everything gold and shiny and trad is old and from the days of dinosaurs, and what have you got?

For those that go on about ladders, how about some actual quotes froms the H & S?

Ladders are not banned as of today. Whatever my own personnal thoughts on the subject, in law, ladders are not banned.

Cheers

[poleman]

Have to agree ladders are not going to be banned and we should find out over the coming weeks.

Andy

[mattstanley]

For me, the key phrase refers to that fact that safer alternatives should be used if practicable.

I'm just starting with wfp after many years of ladder work and I know this will mean that I shall be working with a lot less risk.  However, there are parts of my work where wfp is not practicable, so I shall be using a ladder in these instances (safely of course).

Ladders won't be banned - if they are, we'll all be in trouble.

[sandy]

why are glasgow city councils own in house window cleaners-
   still useing ladders to clean schools,council buildings etc do you think they dont know about the new laws or wfp I dont think so.These euro laws can be manipulatedto suit.Do you think tony blair is going to put sixty thousand window cleaners on the dole for using a ladder SCREW THE NUT BOYS