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Bob Robertson

  • Posts: 695
Quality Management Certification
« on: July 06, 2011, 10:56:35 pm »
Does anyone on here have BS EN ISO 9001? I am filling out a form for a company I do work for and this is a question on their H&S form.
 
I was talking to Paul Pearse about it and he was telling me the NCCA are in the process of going through it. I was just wondering if any sole traders on here have got it.

Bob

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2011, 11:03:59 pm »
In the process of it all.

Pretty much essential for commercial work these days I am finding.

Bob Robertson

  • Posts: 695
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2011, 11:06:40 pm »
How much does it cost Jamie?

Bob

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2011, 11:26:23 pm »
It varies from company to company. Depending on infrastructure and whether or not you need to employ someone specifically to carry it out and how quick you need to do it.

I reckon it's gonna cost us anywhere between £3 & £5k by the time we are done.

Hopefully nearer the £3k. For a sole trader not in too much of a hurry it will be much lower. I am hoping that the improved processes will ultimately streamline us making us more productive.

Andy Hogarth

  • Posts: 501
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2011, 11:30:38 pm »
What is it??
Www.2venturegroup.com

Bob Robertson

  • Posts: 695

AJB

  • Posts: 781
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2011, 08:19:34 am »
It actually means nothing at the end of the day.
Just because you follow best practice procedures
doesn't mean the end product is any good.
www.ajbcarpetcleaning.co.uk
At the end of the day a Satisfied Customer is all that counts, They'll come back and so will their friends!!!

Bob Robertson

  • Posts: 695
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 08:30:28 am »
AJB

It could mean that you might not get some commercial work if you don't have it in the future. If you are going down the flood route then I think it might be a necessity.

Bob

Helen

Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2011, 08:50:15 am »
It actually means nothing at the end of the day.
Just because you follow best practice procedures
doesn't mean the end product is any good.

I'm with you on this, have been through many with previous employment. It is just another very expensive logo you can get :) For a lot of work involved, for it then to be "filed" away until your next assessment.
Basically it's a mugs guide for each and every job title and task carried out in your business, yes even from having to explain (for example) when an invoice gets paid, how to file it, in which file and where that file is kept.
Believe me they will even want documentation as to how you open the van to access the equipment!!!!!!
To pass it: you get an assessment prior to starting, the assessor tells you what you need to do, you do it, the assessor comes backs for a pre-assessment and tells you if you would pass or not, if not they tell you what you need to do..................... then they pass you.

If you feel this will gain you more work then go for it, but as with many others we have done work for ISO registered companies and have not lost out because we don't have it.
In fact thinking back to my last employment, it made no difference whatsoever to work volume that having it before and the Ironic thing with that company was that they did work for the government, MOD and high security access locations, who didn't care about anything except whether the employees were ex-criminals :)

The point is that a complete stranger should be able to walk into your business, pick up the procedure files/manuals and be able to do any job in your company from the instruction in the manual. :)


Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2011, 09:39:43 am »
It actually means nothing at the end of the day.
Just because you follow best practice procedures
doesn't mean the end product is any good.

True.

Unfortunately for us it can mean the difference between retaining or losing contracts of £100k +.

Joe H

Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2011, 09:53:33 am »
I was just going to agree with Helen, but then you posted re retaining/losing £100k contracts and now agree with you.

Obviously it sounds like circumstances dictate.

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2011, 10:20:45 am »
I also believe its a little like the Woolsafe, IICRC, NCCA Brownie badges we all seek for customer confidence only in the commercial sector.

Its a pain as we already have SAFEContractor, which is only recognised by a few companies so we then need Constructionline, same only recognised by certain companies so they want you to use CHAS.

Its never ending. Next up will be all the Environmental accreditation that will no doubt become enforced.

Helen

Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2011, 11:45:26 am »
It actually means nothing at the end of the day.
Just because you follow best practice procedures
doesn't mean the end product is any good.

True.

Unfortunately for us it can mean the difference between retaining or losing contracts of £100k +.

Well if that is the case then you have to go for it, but as you say where will it end? We all can't have everything!
Just remember K.I.S.S when you do the mugs guide, make sure there is enough info, but don't overdo it, simple bullet lines should suffice.........bringing back memories now that I thought had gone forever......
Get order from fax/e-mail (if e-mail print a hard copy)
Log onto order sheet and give reference number
Process manually by writing ref number on paperwork related
Process computerised by entering into computer system, click on order file, click into process, enter  customer account number, enter ref number, enter details from paperwork, check and print off confirmation.
Fax/ e-mail confirmation to customer
Attach all paperwork related to customer original order.
Pass to schedules co-ordinator.


and so on and on and on and on ;D

Doug Holloway

  • Posts: 3917
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2011, 11:57:56 am »
Hi Guys

I was involved with the original BS 5750 which evolved into ISO 9001.

It was based on MOD standards and has always been about quality systems rather than quality itself.

So you can make rubbish as long as you say you are making rubbish and record it all as you go along!

Cheers

Doug

Helen

Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2011, 01:10:13 pm »
It actually means nothing at the end of the day.
Just because you follow best practice procedures
doesn't mean the end product is any good.

True.

Unfortunately for us it can mean the difference between retaining or losing contracts of £100k +.

Just a thought. The contracts that need to be retained are with businesses that previously didn't require you to have ISO.
So now they suddenly do....(probably instigated by someone that appears on the Apprentice!!!!!!!)
They obviously have been happy with your work as you are retained. Why not put feelers out to see if they could aide you in some way with gaining ISO, maybe a monetary contribution,  I think this would be beneficial to both sides as it shows both sides are serious about ISO and serious about the contract that you already have......it's worth a try :)
You may not feel so blackmailed into having to get something your really didn't want :)

Helen

Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2011, 01:17:52 pm »
Hi Guys

I was involved with the original BS 5750 which evolved into ISO 9001.

It was based on MOD standards and has always been about quality systems rather than quality itself.

So you can make rubbish as long as you say you are making rubbish and record it all as you go along!

Cheers

 
Doug

;D Poor you!
Hmmm... Mod and their systems drive me insane, you have to have a system, to be able to say you have a system etc etc.
Half their staff don't know what they are doing and the other half don't care.

ISO is a big cost to some businesses, basically just to say we can follow procedures (if we have to) :)


AJB

  • Posts: 781
Re: Quality Management Certification
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2011, 05:22:16 pm »
Went through original BS5750 with a company before i came into
Carpet cleaning.
They went for BS5750 part 1 straight away, instead of part 2, then part 1.
It took 18 months writing stupid procedures such as "how to put a bottle into a bag,
how to bag tie the bag when full, how to stack the bag, where to stack the bag, all
within clearly painted marked areas for each product".
At the end of the day it is highly detailed method statements.
That lot cost the company £300k.
Earned it sod all.

If it is an existing contract then, you are working to a standard they are happy
with. having a few letters and numbers will make no difference, apart from the
BSI group being a little richer.
www.ajbcarpetcleaning.co.uk
At the end of the day a Satisfied Customer is all that counts, They'll come back and so will their friends!!!