[macleod]

Help.

We clean a few small offices (mainly window cleaners, but have a few office cleans as well) and have been asked by the office manager if a Virus, Disease or Bacteria that could cause serious illness was identified at one of their offices if as the cleaners we would be responsible, and therefore liable.

My question is this, I assume there are companies out there that can 'detect' a Virus, Disease or Bacteria that could cause serious illness and if we are the cleaners how should we go about 'protecting' ourselves.

Also who are these companies that can 'detect' a Virus, Disease or Bacteria that could cause serious illness.

Any experiences or help is appreciated, we are a bit concerned now about being liable for a Virus, Disease or Bacteria that could cause serious illness and wonder the best way forward.

Thanks

Mac

[BDCS]

Why would you be liable unless you have stated that in your cleaning duties you have performed or implied you have done some form of infection control. Does he state every employee must have a bath in 429 upon entering the office. Is the hvac fitted with hepa filters ? The list goes on but because you mop the floor its your fault - I doubt it. Hospitals can't stop infections spreading so doe you think you can ? It is an opportunity to sell him anti bac hand gel though

[Bedfordshire Oven Cleaning]

We are cleaners and we charge cleaners prices, simple.
It really is a nonsense question to ask of his office cleaners. But think of the possibilities though, I would try to convince him firstly that the computer and phone equipment needs cleaning and sanitizing to reduce the risk, as BDCS states anti bac gel, regular carpet and deep cleans etc...

Definatley would jump on the computers though, good money to be made but you do need the right gear.

Dont read too much into his question, just gently remind him that you are there to clean, nothing more.

[BDCS]

I forgot to mention ozone

[macleod]

Thanks guys for the responses so far.

So if we clean the toilets and they 'test' for a Virus, Disease or Bacteria (that could cause serious illness) and they find that the test comes back positive (I don't know if there is an industry accepted cleanliness standard for toilets/offices etc) then would we be liable...

I can see there point of view inasmuch we the cleaners have allowed these micro spores to develop/exists they would argue its because of poor or ineffective cleaning and therefore are responsible for any Virus, Diseases or Bacteria that are detected...

[BDCS]

Now your starting to talk of needing an ATP meter or the like which is very specialist. What is this client really asking of you ? does he really eat his dinner off the toilet seat ?

http://www.parish-supply.com/atp-meter.htm

[The Great One]

Hi

put in writing that there is no way you can be held responsible for any virus or bacteria that can cause serious illness or death.

they seem to be talking about ebloa, MRSA or that host of bacteria. tell them if they are that worried then to get another company in to fog the place (if you don't do it) or as stated charge extra for using Biocides, anti bac hand gels, fogging, specialist cleaning of phones, PC's etc, increase of cleaning.

As siad even Hospitals cannot contain MRSA etc, so what hope have you got and how dirty is the office to start with?

Martin

[macleod]

thanks guys for replies... some made me chuckle!

Well I'm told that they plan to 'hire' someone who will give their office a 'health check' type thing (maybe UV & ATP testing?) and if the results come back negative (so I assume there must be an industry standard in which they can benchmark?) then they will want us to 'rectify' the issue (I assume re-clean?).

who does such tests, i thought the local environmental health officer would but i get the feeling its a private company.

we are not worried as the standard of cleaning is good, but as always I'm sure if you know the 'right' places to look then virus, diseases or bacteria will be lurking...

Mac

 

[BDCS]

I used to work in a food type factory where we did this sort of monitoring and unless you grow from swobs they will no doubt be able to show a high count but of what ? Wiping a worktop with an anti bac spray will still leave a particle count but what will these grow into ? We can get into log kill numbers and fogging but what are they up to in these premises ? Is the owner paranoid or suffering OCD ?

[macleod]

thanks for the replies, i'll let you know what happens, but im interested if anyone has had there work 'audited' like this before?

Mac

[BDCS]

Only CIP work on the filler, carbonator and pasturiser plants in the soft drink factory. Contact Chemspec about some advice about fogging 429 if you want to take the job on but I doubt they go to such extremes in hospitals without good cause

[jaespray]

you can wash your hand 10 times    and still get a bacteria count
a sterile place  also has its dangers
if there was no bacteria  life would not exsist
regards john

[Pristine Clean]

That's interesting.

You are certainly not liable for a virus in the building.

Hospitals get viruses, bugs, super bugs.. and the cleaners their are not liable.

There are many ways the virus / bug can get into the building, atmosphere, sneezing, coughing, hand shakes, money is one of the worst or even in the water. Even the air vents for air conditioning... when did they last have the ducting cleaned... the list is endless. Let them do there test. Please id be very interested to see what else they come up with.

You could suggest other ways of improving the cleaning, using bacterial sprays and as someone mentioned hand gels obviously at an additional cost.

all the best

Dave

[Scotbrite]

Just a thought, but is there the possibility that he is trying to get you to admit/accept some kind of liability so they can then turn round & say we have found something & start a claim against you. I would be vvvery wary of somebody talking in this way. I have been in the industry a long time & never heard anyone using this kind of tack before.
Cheers,
Ron

[John Kelly]

Whoever told you this is an idiot. I would be wary about working in such a place.
In fact I would get them to put that statement in writing to show to your lawyers and then see what their reaction is.
It is impossible to steralise a general workplace. You can't even completely steralise an operating theatre.

ATP meters work by wiping a swab on a surface and placing the swab into the hand held meter. The light reflecting off the swab gives a reading of the ATP on the surface. ATP stands for Adenosine Triphosphate. This is what all living material needs to survive. The lower level of ATP on a surface the less likely bacteria etc could grow there.
Strange thing when I met the rep of the company we purchase ours from at Standsted airport he took a reading of the table which was quite low. A cleaner came over and wiped it with a cloth and he took another reading and it was through the roof.

[macleod]

**********UPDATE**********

Okay well that was painless.

We had our cleaning 'tested' (not sure of the actual technical details, but it was a combination of ATP swabs and UV) a simple green, amber and red system helped validate our cleaning protocols and identified areas that we could focus on which will help lower risk of cross contamination.

Will be given a certificate that shows we've been tested, that we are part of this scheme and this will open the possibility of additional work within the group and perhaps more importantly helps us to retain our contract.

Mac

[DavidStainberg]

Thanks a lot for sharing guys!