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EandM

  • Posts: 2182
Van Speed Limits
« on: June 04, 2011, 01:57:32 pm »
Does anyone actually know this and if so do you actually take any notice?

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/vanspeedlimits

EandM

  • Posts: 2182
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2011, 02:05:54 pm »
http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Driving/DefensiveDriving/Speed/UK_Speed_limits.html


Ironically if you fitted a 400l tank and all necessary WFP gear into a Range Rover, despite weighing over 2 tonnes empty, you would be within vehicle payload limits and exempt from commercial speed limits, though if you had a large trailer system you would theoretically need a tachograph!

Skyewindowcleaning

  • Posts: 36
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2011, 02:24:55 pm »
I was aware of the law but have never taken any notice of it and likewise have never heard of anyone being fined for breaking the van speed limit although im sure it happens. conversly i know a lot of people who have been done for being over the weight limit.

what would happen if you where caught doing 70 in an unladen transit, vito ect?

EandM

  • Posts: 2182
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2011, 02:34:55 pm »
I was aware of the law but have never taken any notice of it and likewise have never heard of anyone being fined for breaking the van speed limit although im sure it happens. conversly i know a lot of people who have been done for being over the weight limit.

what would happen if you where caught doing 70 in an unladen transit, vito ect?


On a motorway - nothing.
I had a customer who was a Judge back in the eighties and used to routinely do van speeders +10mph on A Roads so 90mph on a dual carriageway is 30 over not 20 as it would be in a car.
If you read the blurb it says that unladen is irrelevant, just the gross vehicle weight if more than two tonnes.

scud

  • Posts: 683
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 03:05:49 pm »
  I do know someone who was done for 60mph in a transit on a nation speed limit road, he should of been doing 50mph.

  I got a summons 2 years ago for 59mph in a 60 in my Berlingo, I rang them up and they agreed that my van is a car derived vehicle and therefore not liable to the large van limit, although I suspect that the camera van operator that got me saw the motorcycle on a trailer behind me and that is what should of limited me to 50mph, but you couldn't see it in the picture and I got away with it. ;D

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 04:20:35 pm »
  I do know someone who was done for 60mph in a transit on a nation speed limit road, he should of been doing 50mph.

  I got a summons 2 years ago for 59mph in a 60 in my Berlingo, I rang them up and they agreed that my van is a car derived vehicle and therefore not liable to the large van limit, although I suspect that the camera van operator that got me saw the motorcycle on a trailer behind me and that is what should of limited me to 50mph, but you couldn't see it in the picture and I got away with it. ;D

Hi Scud,

The Berlingo actually isn't a car derived van - the only Citroen van that is truly car derived is the C15. (The Multispace was a derivative of the van and not the other way round.)

But the early Berlingos from 1998 - 2002 (600 & 800 models) are just under the van speed limit of 2000kg so you will get away with the car derived van speed limit. The later Berlingos from 2003 are also within the weight limit but the 800LX could be fractionally over the 2000kg gross weight and are subject to the van speed limits if it has the 2 litre Hdi engine. Later models with the 1.6hdi engine should be OK as the engine is lighter. (New EU legislation came in at that time which necessitated the redesign of the front end which included raising the height of the bonnet. This was supposed to give pedestrians a better chance of survival in a low speed collision. The additional materials needed with this redesign were responsible for the van's weight increase.)

The latest 625kg Berlingo is fine, but the 750kg and 850kg variants are subject to the van speed limits.

Spruce
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Mike_G

  • Posts: 1500
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 04:36:37 pm »
I knew about this, when the law was introduced the police targeted unknowing van drivers and made a killing.

EandM

  • Posts: 2182
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 07:42:48 pm »
  I do know someone who was done for 60mph in a transit on a nation speed limit road, he should of been doing 50mph.

  I got a summons 2 years ago for 59mph in a 60 in my Berlingo, I rang them up and they agreed that my van is a car derived vehicle and therefore not liable to the large van limit, although I suspect that the camera van operator that got me saw the motorcycle on a trailer behind me and that is what should of limited me to 50mph, but you couldn't see it in the picture and I got away with it. ;D

Hi Scud,

The Berlingo actually isn't a car derived van - the only Citroen van that is truly car derived is the C15. (The Multispace was a derivative of the van and not the other way round.)

But the early Berlingos from 1998 - 2002 (600 & 800 models) are just under the van speed limit of 2000kg so you will get away with the car derived van speed limit. The later Berlingos from 2003 are also within the weight limit but the 800LX could be fractionally over the 2000kg gross weight and are subject to the van speed limits if it has the 2 litre Hdi engine. Later models with the 1.6hdi engine should be OK as the engine is lighter. (New EU legislation came in at that time which necessitated the redesign of the front end which included raising the height of the bonnet. This was supposed to give pedestrians a better chance of survival in a low speed collision. The additional materials needed with this redesign were responsible for the van's weight increase.)

The latest 625kg Berlingo is fine, but the 750kg and 850kg variants are subject to the van speed limits.

Spruce



The term car derived van is also open to interpretation as you'd assume that an Escort is. But it seems they have to be utilizing the same suspension and brake setup as the car. The MK3 Escort van onwards has leaf springs at the rear unlike the car. The Escort Combi's are pretty much Escort estate's with the rear windows filled in. As pointed out though both types escape due to having a gross vehicle weight of under two tonnes.

Paul Coleman

Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 07:50:23 pm »
  I do know someone who was done for 60mph in a transit on a nation speed limit road, he should of been doing 50mph.

  I got a summons 2 years ago for 59mph in a 60 in my Berlingo, I rang them up and they agreed that my van is a car derived vehicle and therefore not liable to the large van limit, although I suspect that the camera van operator that got me saw the motorcycle on a trailer behind me and that is what should of limited me to 50mph, but you couldn't see it in the picture and I got away with it. ;D

That's alright then.  Just a 12 month stretch for perverting the course of justice  ;D

Paul Coleman

Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 08:00:14 pm »
I knew about this, when the law was introduced the police targeted unknowing van drivers and made a killing.


It's the sort of law change that should have been publicised more at the time it happened - not yet another thing to use as a cash cow.  I drove a 2.9 tonne Trafic around for a year before I stumbled across the speed limits on the web while looking for something else.
I wasn't nicked in that year but only by luck.
Many years ago, I drove a 7.5 tonne (7.49 to be strictly accurate) lorry around.  You were allowed to drive them on a car licence then (think you still are if you passed your test pre 1991).  It wasn't until a vehicle was 7.5 tonnes or more that speed limits started to reduce.  So it was a big leap to drop it to 2 tonnes (unless it went down part way in the meantime).  It was perfectly reasonable for me to not check this as it's a long way from 7.5 tonnes to 2 tonnes.
Apart from that, with a tank of water behind me, I tend to take it steady anyway.

EandM

  • Posts: 2182
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2011, 08:24:56 pm »
I knew about this, when the law was introduced the police targeted unknowing van drivers and made a killing.


It's the sort of law change that should have been publicised more at the time it happened - not yet another thing to use as a cash cow.  I drove a 2.9 tonne Trafic around for a year before I stumbled across the speed limits on the web while looking for something else.
I wasn't nicked in that year but only by luck.
Many years ago, I drove a 7.5 tonne (7.49 to be strictly accurate) lorry around.  You were allowed to drive them on a car licence then (think you still are if you passed your test pre 1991).  It wasn't until a vehicle was 7.5 tonnes or more that speed limits started to reduce.  So it was a big leap to drop it to 2 tonnes (unless it went down part way in the meantime).  It was perfectly reasonable for me to not check this as it's a long way from 7.5 tonnes to 2 tonnes.
Apart from that, with a tank of water behind me, I tend to take it steady anyway.

They seem to go back to at least 1984 and possibly beyond that. It's one of those things that I'd heard about but didn't know the specific details until I saw the site. Weirdly it seems there are other exceptions.
A Regular Cab (two door) Ford Ranger is subject to the commercial speed limit but a Super Cab Ford Ranger( MK2 onward) isn't. This is because although they are commercials and they have a gross vehicle weight of more than two tonnes and aren't car derived they have four doors and are therefore classified as Multi Role Vehicles and therefore exempt. Same goes for all Double Cabs etc.

Blackbushe Windows

  • Posts: 349
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2011, 09:00:51 pm »
Just checked dept of transport site - glad I now am aware as I definitely wasn't! 
Blackbushe Windows.
Est. 1983
www.blackbushewindows.co.uk

Sean Dyer

  • Posts: 2947
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 12:02:24 am »
Thankyou i didnt know this

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 09:48:02 am »
bfg wont have to worry about his van going that fast. ;D

outdoor restore

  • Posts: 309
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2011, 02:15:51 pm »
I knew about this, when the law was introduced the police targeted unknowing van drivers and made a killing.


It's the sort of law change that should have been publicised more at the time it happened - not yet another thing to use as a cash cow.  I drove a 2.9 tonne Trafic around for a year before I stumbled across the speed limits on the web while looking for something else.
I wasn't nicked in that year but only by luck.
Many years ago, I drove a 7.5 tonne (7.49 to be strictly accurate) lorry around.  You were allowed to drive them on a car licence then (think you still are if you passed your test pre 1991).  It wasn't until a vehicle was 7.5 tonnes or more that speed limits started to reduce.  So it was a big leap to drop it to 2 tonnes (unless it went down part way in the meantime).  It was perfectly reasonable for me to not check this as it's a long way from 7.5 tonnes to 2 tonnes.
Apart from that, with a tank of water behind me, I tend to take it steady anyway.

They seem to go back to at least 1984 and possibly beyond that. It's one of those things that I'd heard about but didn't know the specific details until I saw the site. Weirdly it seems there are other exceptions.
A Regular Cab (two door) Ford Ranger is subject to the commercial speed limit but a Super Cab Ford Ranger( MK2 onward) isn't. This is because although they are commercials and they have a gross vehicle weight of more than two tonnes and aren't car derived they have four doors and are therefore classified as Multi Role Vehicles and therefore exempt. Same goes for all Double Cabs etc.

Where can I find the rules regarding double cabs, I use a Navara double cab and have always thought the van rules applied.  Have googled and seard the DOT site but can't find any reference.
Many thanks
Neil

Paul Coleman

Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2011, 05:30:59 pm »
I knew about this, when the law was introduced the police targeted unknowing van drivers and made a killing.


It's the sort of law change that should have been publicised more at the time it happened - not yet another thing to use as a cash cow.  I drove a 2.9 tonne Trafic around for a year before I stumbled across the speed limits on the web while looking for something else.
I wasn't nicked in that year but only by luck.
Many years ago, I drove a 7.5 tonne (7.49 to be strictly accurate) lorry around.  You were allowed to drive them on a car licence then (think you still are if you passed your test pre 1991).  It wasn't until a vehicle was 7.5 tonnes or more that speed limits started to reduce.  So it was a big leap to drop it to 2 tonnes (unless it went down part way in the meantime).  It was perfectly reasonable for me to not check this as it's a long way from 7.5 tonnes to 2 tonnes.
Apart from that, with a tank of water behind me, I tend to take it steady anyway.

They seem to go back to at least 1984 and possibly beyond that. It's one of those things that I'd heard about but didn't know the specific details until I saw the site. Weirdly it seems there are other exceptions.
A Regular Cab (two door) Ford Ranger is subject to the commercial speed limit but a Super Cab Ford Ranger( MK2 onward) isn't. This is because although they are commercials and they have a gross vehicle weight of more than two tonnes and aren't car derived they have four doors and are therefore classified as Multi Role Vehicles and therefore exempt. Same goes for all Double Cabs etc.

1984 would surprise me as I believed the speed limit change to be 7.5 tonnes in 1989 when I was driving one.  So I would think after 1989 would be the date the change happened.I could be wrong of course as it was ages ago.

EandM

  • Posts: 2182
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2011, 06:54:58 pm »
I knew about this, when the law was introduced the police targeted unknowing van drivers and made a killing.


It's the sort of law change that should have been publicised more at the time it happened - not yet another thing to use as a cash cow.  I drove a 2.9 tonne Trafic around for a year before I stumbled across the speed limits on the web while looking for something else.
I wasn't nicked in that year but only by luck.
Many years ago, I drove a 7.5 tonne (7.49 to be strictly accurate) lorry around.  You were allowed to drive them on a car licence then (think you still are if you passed your test pre 1991).  It wasn't until a vehicle was 7.5 tonnes or more that speed limits started to reduce.  So it was a big leap to drop it to 2 tonnes (unless it went down part way in the meantime).  It was perfectly reasonable for me to not check this as it's a long way from 7.5 tonnes to 2 tonnes.
Apart from that, with a tank of water behind me, I tend to take it steady anyway.

They seem to go back to at least 1984 and possibly beyond that. It's one of those things that I'd heard about but didn't know the specific details until I saw the site. Weirdly it seems there are other exceptions.
A Regular Cab (two door) Ford Ranger is subject to the commercial speed limit but a Super Cab Ford Ranger( MK2 onward) isn't. This is because although they are commercials and they have a gross vehicle weight of more than two tonnes and aren't car derived they have four doors and are therefore classified as Multi Role Vehicles and therefore exempt. Same goes for all Double Cabs etc.

Where can I find the rules regarding double cabs, I use a Navara double cab and have always thought the van rules applied.  Have googled and seard the DOT site but can't find any reference.
Many thanks
Neil

I found the double cab info on a Land Rover site. I'll see if I can find it again and post a link.

EandM

  • Posts: 2182
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2011, 07:06:21 pm »
I knew about this, when the law was introduced the police targeted unknowing van drivers and made a killing.


It's the sort of law change that should have been publicised more at the time it happened - not yet another thing to use as a cash cow.  I drove a 2.9 tonne Trafic around for a year before I stumbled across the speed limits on the web while looking for something else.
I wasn't nicked in that year but only by luck.
Many years ago, I drove a 7.5 tonne (7.49 to be strictly accurate) lorry around.  You were allowed to drive them on a car licence then (think you still are if you passed your test pre 1991).  It wasn't until a vehicle was 7.5 tonnes or more that speed limits started to reduce.  So it was a big leap to drop it to 2 tonnes (unless it went down part way in the meantime).  It was perfectly reasonable for me to not check this as it's a long way from 7.5 tonnes to 2 tonnes.
Apart from that, with a tank of water behind me, I tend to take it steady anyway.

They seem to go back to at least 1984 and possibly beyond that. It's one of those things that I'd heard about but didn't know the specific details until I saw the site. Weirdly it seems there are other exceptions.
A Regular Cab (two door) Ford Ranger is subject to the commercial speed limit but a Super Cab Ford Ranger( MK2 onward) isn't. This is because although they are commercials and they have a gross vehicle weight of more than two tonnes and aren't car derived they have four doors and are therefore classified as Multi Role Vehicles and therefore exempt. Same goes for all Double Cabs etc.

Where can I find the rules regarding double cabs, I use a Navara double cab and have always thought the van rules applied.  Have googled and seard the DOT site but can't find any reference.
Many thanks
Neil

I found the double cab info on a Land Rover site. I'll see if I can find it again and post a link.


Here's one.

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/q529.htm

Seems that dual purpose vehicles are rated on UNLADEN WEIGHT and not GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT but must be 4 wheel drive and therefore have the same speed limit as private cars.

Or this definition: (Print it out and carry it with you)

Road Vehicles Constr. and Use Regs 1986 said:
Dual purpose vehicles

A `Dual purpose vehicle' is one that is constructed or adapted for the carriage of both passengers and goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2,040 kg; and which either-

(i) is so constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine, is, or by the use of the appropriate controls can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or-

(ii) satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely-

(A) the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(B) the area to the rear of the driver's seat must-

(i) be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers, and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered backrests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle;and

(ii) be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an aggregate area of not less than 1,850cm2 on each side and not less than 770cm2 at the rear; and-

(C ) the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the backrests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in the first paragraph of item (B) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the backrests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

outdoor restore

  • Posts: 309
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2011, 07:11:31 pm »
EandM

Many thanks

Neil

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25402
Re: Van Speed Limits
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2011, 07:18:23 pm »
In relation to speed limits.

My Fiat Doblo 2006 1.3 multijet at 2000kg GVW is a "car".
A Fiat Doblo 2006 1.9 multijet at 2025kg GVW is a "van".
It's a game of three halves!