[james44]

Having said all that I also believe that wfp is responsible for knocking the commercial market to such low prices.

The same will happen in domestics!

[Mike_G]

Having said all that I also believe that wfp is responsible for knocking the commercial market to such low prices.

Not sure about that, I have yet to see anyone wfp Argos, santanders, clinton cards, comet etc ( tho I expect some do) and they are all done for less than a tenner, a lot less!

[birdymiller]

But if you do the maths how much more in real terms are you earning?
My expenses for the year exceed £5000 easily.
Trad would only be the cost of fuel.

WFP has to be quicker just to pay the business costs, if you don't earn more then there's not much point in using it apart from H&S. issues.

My costs have increased, of course they have. My annual costs are in line with yours. But if you think that hte only cost tradding was fuel then you havent looked hard enough.

I doubled my income overnight going from trad to WFP, which more than paid for any additional business expenses.

The way I look at it and using my example above is a good one. I f I had traded that property Id have done £160, it would have taken at least a day, Id have been knackered completely the next day (it was leaded) and therefore the next day my income would have suffered.

Doing it WFP I earnt a top-notch hourly rate, over and above my intended rate, after and hour and a half I was then able to go on and exceed my daily target and the next day was able to get up and do it all over again.

You WILL lose otherwise lucrative work if you continue to price some work at trad rates. Its biting your nose off to spite your face and bad business sense.

You say that you doubled your income by switching to wfp, how? Did you buy double the amount of work you previously had or do you mean you were able to do double the work cos wfp is twice as fast as trad. My trad expenses are 95 % fuel, scrims last a good few years, bottle of fairy a month, new set of ladders every few years, 99p bucket had it 7 years a mop every year and squeegies last me years. 10 36" rubbers a year. So fuel is probably more like 99% of my overheads. I think hydro was spot on and had looked hard enough

[Paul Coleman]

how much of that 5 grand a year is spent on wfp after initial set up costs have  been paid?i for one have certainly not doubled my income just because ive got the pole but its still early days relatively(10 months).im still earning more in less time though plus ive picked up a fair bit as well.

say i spend £800 a year on wfp.still well worth it IMO!


2 BAGS OF RESIN   £160

new pole/brush     £400

spares(hose,bits and bobs)£240


all my work is within an 8 mile area so wfp doesnt really impact on fuel costs.i need a van or estate car whether im trad or wfp.the above amount is with buying an SLX every year!

My extra costs are rather higher Daz - but a lot depends on circumstances.
For starters I have a bigger van due to the extra weight (Trafic vs. Escort).  Fuel consumption and repair bills are higher on larger vans.  Hard to put an exact figure on it but a reasonable guess would say 25 mpg vs 45mpg - and that's just the diesel.  I drive further than you.  Repair and maintenance bills are definitely higher - and not just because it's a Trafic :-) .  Just the tyres are at least £75-£80  each as opposed to £25-£30 and you get through them sooner when you carry weight.  On top  of that, renting a lock up and having to go onto metered water could well be £2k a year - and a good deal at that.  However that's not all extra because working trad I paid just under a tenner a week for a storage space (£500 a year).
So that's £3k a year
So that £1,500 extra on space and water plus perhaps the same again on vehicle maintenance and fuel.
Resin/poles/brushes/fittings etc can come to another £1k.  I'm averaging it out though as best I can because a much bigger pole will need to be bought from time to time.
I have chopped and changed ROs more than most so that hasn't helped.  Oh yes.  I had to get another water tank when I moved units as the old one wouldn't fit through the door.  Much harder to find deals on non standard tank sizes so that set me back over £300 just for the tank with extra large lid.  £50+ for a battery operated water timer (don't ask - LOL).  A leisure battery a year too roughly so another £60 - £70.
Only yesterday I forked out £100 for an extra SLX section, some glue, and a couple of spare end caps.
Sometimes it feels like I'm feeding a monster.
It's probably fair to say that, for me, even as a sole trader, the extra cost of WFP could average at £3.5k a year.
Mind you, that is dwarfed by the extra turnover I make because of it so I'm not complaining for a moment.
I realise that my situation differs from many others because I can't make pure water at home.

[dave0123]

commercial prices are really low these days its very hard to complete on the avarge block flats. I don't know if its down to the wfp could well be it gets it done faster and because commercial is more based on the cheapest price hence why you see some windows in a right state. 

I don't really same any time on domestics with WFP unless the windows are leaded or squared or really big houses or really compact

[Clive McDonald]

My ex's are over 5k too.That doesn't inlcude depreciation on my (newish) vehicles.It gets worse.At night i can spend up to an hour on water fill up and admin.

The simplicity of the situation is that those who price higher (but not ridicolously so), and invest in good kit earn more money.

[Dave66]

just because its quicker poling dont charge less 

ther're still getting clean windows..

[dave0123]

i agree with dave, in another trade if jo blogs went out and bought a tool and speeded the work by half hour or a few hours would it be any cheaper? hardly as the quoted price is the quoted price

[George Gardner]

Dazmond - In answer to you question I think it has yes

However - mainly depends on whether you quote for your time or by the job?

If its time - and it takes less then yes the prices will come down.

If its by the job - then the time saved is more money in your back pocket for less work.

[Londoner]

Having said all that I also believe that wfp is responsible for knocking the commercial market to such low prices.

No its competition, same effect but different source reason. Loads more operators looking for work.

[christopher b]

There are many costs that bump up wfp. Generally you'll need a van to haul the extra weight whereas mr mondeo man is using the family car. Often the van isn't much good for family use so then you'll need a second family vehicle. Straight away your fuel usage has increased especially if using a larger van, your insurance now doubles (two vehicles), your service and mot costs now double as does your vehicle tax. Your water costs increase dramatically if on a meter.
You'll need money put aside for your next van or money to pay your loan. I change poles around once a year (don't have to but I do).
The costs of wfp can be huge compared  to trad.
Just because you are quicker doesn't mean you should be cheaper.

Dazmond, no offence mate but when you've been running your wfp business for your first year or more then look at your costs you will be shocked - guaranteed.

Totaly true.
last year on trad the cost in materials etc was about £160, yet it costs me £245 to change a RO, its not even the cost of 2 bags of resin.
i do trad and WFP but keep an eye on costs for both. it costs me nearly £1000 a year to keep one van on road, so no way droping prices just becouse they get done that bit quicker