[pristineclean]

I have a cleaner who I employed two months ago to take care of a building and by all accounts, she's friendly enough and her work has been to a high standard.

And now I have to dismiss her.  The short story is that she'd made a mistake in entering her NI number and seemingly shouted at my area manager that she was going to call the police when he said that we would have to get her correct details prior to paying her and we then received a two page letter written for her by her husband which was fairly hostile, though not in a threatening way.

My HR director and my area manager both disagreed with my request to terminate her employment and she received a letter advising her as to her future conduct and commending her work to that point.

And now I have another letter, two equally hostile pages with further demands and negative comments.

I'm fairly sure that her husband is the instigator of the unpleasantness and everyone has good things to say about the cleaner but there is simply no way that I can justify the risk of this continuing to a stage where she has 12 months service and Mr Crazy can send his abstract theories for an Employment Tribunal to consider.

HR director now agrees with me but area manager was still pushing for the cleaner to keep her job. Purpose of post is to vent mainly  but I'm also at a loss to explain why he seems determined to behave in a way which compels this outcome and why my otherwise efficient employee is happy to go along with it.

[cleaning-team]

Have you followed the disciplinary procedure as per your policy?

Unless you have skimmed over the actual process followed then one warning and then dismissal for sending two letters seems very harsh to me and, even though she has no rights for unfair dismissal in her first 12 months, she does have rights for IMPROPER dismissal and if you haven't followed your documented procedure then you could be in trouble.

If her work is as good as you say then I would ask her to a performance review meeting and talk to her about it and see if it can be resolved amicably without her husband in the middle.

[pristineclean]

Thanks for replying :-) it's always good to get feedback.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'improper' dismissal - the Employment Act 2008 pretty much ended the rights which previous statute had conferred for wrongful dimissal and the common law, or civil, remedies for this heading confine damages to the notice period specified in the contract and since she's getting this anyway I'm happy to rely on the SOSR (Some Other Substantial Reason) heading provided for in ERA 1996 to bring this unfortunate episode to an end.

I'm not particularly surprised that my decision appears harsh to you since you have only the facts which I, for brevity, condensed but the last letter I received included a request that no telephone calls were to be made by the manager to the employee for any purpose.

My view, which I believe case law would support, is that this is an attempt by the employee to substantially change the way in which the working relationship can be managed and I also believe, if I was being pedantic, that I could rely on the request as a repudiatory breach and bring the contract to an end on that basis alone.

That's not why I'm dismissing though - every company has an ethos and ours is that people should enjoy coming into work. I think it would be naive of me not to take action to prevent an individual, or her agent, from intimidating by process to achieve special treatment. If I'm not going to tolerate managers being bullies, it's only fair that I apply the same standard to cleaners.

[garyj]

Why don't you go and see her and say that from the tone of her letter that she clearly isn't happy to work for you so why doesn't she just leave, you'll pay her what she is owed (plus any notice) and she can leave now. I don't think you can tolerate a member of staff dictating to you that an area manager cannot phone her, can only presume that the letter was mostly directed at your manager. Does your manager feel threatened when he speaks to her and  the relationship between them has clearly broken down. Not a good situation for the manager and is hampering their ability to do the job. If she doesn't want a phone call then how is she going to act in the flesh? I would argue that the area manager also has rights so should be allowed to go about their job without feeling threatened or intimidated.
I don't think you sound harsh at all, luckily in this climate it is much easier to find staff and they can no longer act indispensable. Get rid ASAP.

Ps, thought this thread was going to be about me 
 

[cleaning-team]

I used the term improper dismissal - the correct term is wrongful dismissal which is different to unfair but it does apply even for those who are employed less than 12 months. It is in essence a breach of contract i.e. you did not live up to your side of the employment contract.

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/employees/wrongful-dismissal.htm

[gordonswindows]

While I understand the "fear" we all have as employers in regard to tribunals they are really not as easy or as bad as every employee believes

Look up the stats for the small percentage of claims that are actually accepted to be passed forward for a tribunal and you will see it is very small.

You do not have any problems anyway as the initial concern was the "incorrect" NI number the employee supplied. If it was a genuine mistake why did she not just correct it if it was not a mistake the problem is still hers

Your hands are tied but not by the employee but by the law, you cannot  overlook any incorrect details and have a duty to supply the details as supplied by your employee if your employee fails to supply you with these details you can not employee her.

Easy choice tell her you need the details or she can't work not through your choice but by the law or just pass the info onto the relevant government agency and tell her so. She will soon tell you she doesn't want the job.

You are known for giving well balanced accurate advice on this forum and I am surprised with your concerns over this matter, she gives the incorrect info or she doesn't work.

Let us know what happens

Gordon

[Nameless Drudge]

I take it her English(written anyway) isn`t too good and her feeling she needed to call the police was because she thought she wouldn`t get paid and obviously her understanding is thats what the police are for in this country. Add in Mr. Crazy and i understand where you are coming from so best nipped in the bud and get rid now before she starts breeding and spends 4 out of the next 5 years on maternity leave.

[cml]

Hi, there are a few issues that needs to be addressed here.

1.  Assuming she filled in her forms with the incorrect NI number should not give rise to her behviour.  But! being told just before pay day may have sparked her reactions.   However, in all fairness your company should have been able to still process her pay, even if it was slightly delayed using a temporary NI number.  Although TN are no longer accepted by Inland Revenue it could be used for calculations only and she would have been charged at a higher rate that is not recoverable.

2.  If there is a continued problem about her NI Number then a chase and verification process could be undertaken by you as her employer.

3.  It should not be a problem for her to supply you with the correct number if indeed she has one and this leads me to asked how she was paid for her previous month?  She has worked for you at least 2 months so she must have been paid for at least her first month.

4.  Nonetheless her respect for management seems somewhat out the window. (A big problem!!!).   No doubt they have mishandled this situation.  Her husband is a 3rd party and therefore you have no obligation to deal with him nor respond to his letters unless she has formally informed you  that he is acting as her representative.  Your company policies concerning code of conduct, behaviour at work etc should come into play here.  The question is whether such behaviour warrants gross dismissal.

5.  If her behaviour does not warrant gross dismissal then you would need to follow the correct statutory guidelines for disciplinary procedures before dismissal.  As stated in a previous response her current position would be one of wrongful dismissal.  This carries an award of payment in lieu of notice.


6.  Considering she has only worked for 2 months how long is her probationary period?  This should be monitored closely in line with her current behaviour.  

It maybe considered harsh to look for a reason to get rid of staff especially if her work is of satisfactory standards.  This may just have been a moment of madness but needs to be nipped in the bud EARLY!!!  To allow you to continue to monitor her progress as to whether she will fit in with your company and abide but company rules, consider extending her probation to allow further monitoring.  On the otherhand if her letters are preceived as threatenting then your actions for termination would be justified.  In addition if she does not want to supply the correct NI number and expect the company to overlook this then to provide an incorrect number borders on fraud and warrants instant dismissal.

I don't think this may be the case base on the limited information you have provided and could just be a case of an outburst because  she expects to be paid on time.

I hope this helps