Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jon777 on February 23, 2010, 07:00:18 pm
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Hi all,
What do you make of this situation?....
.... Done a quote three weeks ago for sevareall big rooms in a large house.(domestic job)
The lady was very nice and booked the job -£695 was going to take most part of the day, and she asked about a couple of rugs in her garage on my way out. I said I would throw them in free as she booked a larger job and bring them back when we come to clean the carpets.
Anyway my tech turns up at 9 this morning and she is not there. She said she may be a few min late (school run) so he waited,... and waited,......and waited ???
10 comes and hes knocking on neighbours doors trying to get a mobile no for her (we only have landline), but no luck.
I tell him to wait as theres nothing else for him to do and assume that she may have confused her days and still might turn up. I said 12 was the cut off point as we could still finish today if shes back by then.
Anyway she rolls up at 11 looking surprised we are still there. She walks past my tech and on the way past says she feels unwell and is going to call me to rearange :'( >:(
I call her and she is very sheepish and dosent really say much apart from she understands but dosent want it done today as she is unwell. I said could she not have phoned us but she does not reply ???
So, I'm super pi**ed by now but bite my tounge thinking keep the job, the problem is she wouldnt commit to another time.
Its been left as a cancellation but she says she will call to rearange. (She is basically a posh timewaster who had no intention of the work being done today and was surprised to see us still there at 11).
When she calls back and she will because she will wants her rugs which I told the tech to bring back with him she will be told the following.
Once we recieve a cancellation charge of £150 for the day and an additional £100 for the rug cleaning she will not be getting them back?? This covers our costs .
( I know we charge high compared to others but your input on the principle of this is what I'm after)
Also if it does materialise that she is entiltled to them back I will drag them through the gutter first. Can I do this??
Your thoughts please gents... and ladies.
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I'm a bit confused how you came into possession of the rugs i know you said you would clean them but did your tech go into the garage and take the rugs with the woman's permission?
or did he walk in and steal them, as the woman could say to the police :o
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i read it as he took them on the survey and said he would bring them back cleaned when he came to do the job!!!!
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When she calls back and she will because she will wants her rugs which I told the tech to bring back with him she will be told the following.
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Roll the rugs up as tight as you can, and ram them up her bottom ;D
Legally, I would have thought that if you damaged the rugs in any way, you'd be bang in trouble! But I'm pretty sure you can hold them 'til she pays you, our garage won't let you take your car/van until everything's paid up in full, so the same rules apply in my book!
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still not sure what ya mean mike.
he took the rugs after the survey.
cleaned them
tech went to do the job with rugs in van
women turned up at 11 and said i don't want carpets cleaned today so go away
tech went away with rugs still in back of van.
i could be wrong but thats how i read it
simples
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Personally, I would just take the payment for the rugs and not get bogged down with the other issues.
It is all too easy to get worked up and life is too short. Alot of eccentric people out there.
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good answer derek the 2nd ;D
i personally don't think she will ring, they were in the garage so she won't miss them.
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took the rugs at survey but they were to be free with carpets
tech took them back today but brought them away with him as she sent us away without doing job
I'm going to bill her for cancellation 150 and 2 rugs 100 but no price was agreed??!
I will not deliver them until both are paid 250.
If I have to legally return them without payment can I put the dirt back in.
sorry original post a bit unclear
jon
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You need to be carefull.
Regarding the cancellation charge you would have needed to have that written into the written quote you gave her with your own copy. If it's a verbal quote or in writing without that you don't have a leg to stand on.
If the rugs are high value you have more chance of getting the £100 but again a price was never agreed on as it was only free as part of the job.
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the rugs are her husbands and i think he likes them
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what about the resoiling can i dump my waste water back into them and dry them
i'm not normally this vindictive but she has really rattled my cage
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What price would you have cleaned the rugs for?
Shaun
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probably more than 100. especially as they were to be cleaned off site. more like 150 they are wool runners about 9 x 2
i am more annoyed about the full day booking though and her attitude. so it may sound daft but i think i would rather cut my loses and give her the inconvienience of having to collect these two rugs as it would in some way acknowledge she has completley wasted my time and resources and caused her inconvienience herself.
I surely cant be expected to just take them back with a smile on my face and gratefully receive whatever if anything she decides to pay.
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Personally I'd go for the £150 because it's something that you could win in court if need be, if it helps I have had 3 people changing or cancelling appointments for this week and it's only Tuesday, I think people are skint.
Shaun
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I would definately put a price on cleaning the rugs at your normal charge, as these were only free as part of the whole job.
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Think you'll lose out on the time thing.
May get paid for the rugs though.
If she says she won't pay for the rugs I do believe
your entitled to return them in the condition they were in
before you cleaned them.
John
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I see what the problem is here. The time in between you booking the lady in and turning up she has come into contact with her husband!
Woman = Spend Money.
Men = Spend Nothing.
Man + Woman + Money = Conflicting Intrests.
Matt
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This is a tricky one - if she is savvy she could demand you return the rugs as you have no legal right to hold on to them.
If you "re-soil" them she could claim you damaged the rugs
To claim a cancellation charge you will have to prove, as Yorky states. that it was clear on your quotation.
The only legal recourse you have is to send her an invoice for the cleaning of the rugs and the cancallation charge if appropriate and hope she pays. If she refused to pay you can take her to small claims court but of course there is a risk you may not win!
Nick
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Jon I think the first thing I'd do is phone her. Be very bold and direct - ask her when she'd like to re-book the appointment.
If she does re-book (and you'll be able to tell if she sounds genuine), problem solved.
If she starts stuttering and stammering, being vague and evasive, you know what's going on! But you need to ask her why she's had a change of heart! Matt's "husband" theory is bang on the money in my opinion ;)
Early in the conversation you need to mention the figure for how much the rugs would have cost to clean on their own but don't make a demand for payment
Your next move really depends on her demeanour whilst you're talking to her. If she has no intention of getting the carpet cleaning done, explain that the deal you made for the free rug cleaning depended on having the other work done.
You might be able to negotiate doing a lesser amount of the carpet cleaning and leave the rugs free still, or half price, something like that.
If she isn't playing ball, then you need to change your mood to mr. tough guy. tell her the rug cleaning charge stands, and is payable before she comes and collects the rug (I'd get a cheque via post and let it clear, otherwise cash on collection.
Interesting one this, keep us posted :)
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p.s. contract law is very complicated, but a verbal contract was entered in to here.
i would definitely hold on to the rugs, I wouldn't worry about legal action as she has stiffed you and she knows it!
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The problem with the small claims court is everything would need to proven. That she booked the clean for that day and did not cancel. Do you have a written quotation signed by her for the work to be done on that day as a start?
How do you prove she did not phone in advance and cancel as many people do. And again if you have a cancellation policy it has to be in writing and given to your customer at the time of booking.
I doubt very much you would win and it's a waste of time and money in my view. Agree with Nick on everything regarding the rugs as she could turn the whole thing round on you and a reputation is worth keeping.
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Why not charge £250 for off-site cleaning of rugs and don't mention the cancellation fee. Email her the invoice along with request for mutual delivery time. This will let her respond and also give you proof that the rugs have been cleaned should it be taken further.
If there is nothing on the quote about the rugs she could have you by the g**lies without correspondence via email. I am not sure about any legalities but without anything in writing etc.
Regards
Jon
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Why would you want to work for this client now? I wouldn't!
Am I the only one wondering why you agreed to clean rugs for free and even more so why you did this in advance?
I am also surprised that your technician stayed there for so long. 30 mins would be the longest I would stay.
Did you ring the day before to confirm the appointment?
I would take the rugs back, chalk it up to experience and make sure I never did it again. If she offers you any money take it and run.
Nigel
www.designcare.co.uk
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Must have been a large job for nearly 700 pounds.
Be good to hear what happens with the rugs..
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A contract is a contract verbally or written. If the customer has not admitted to making any mistake about the day etc then it is not possible for her to change her story now. I am a man of my word and have proved this several times in court up to now. Obviously you do not want to waste your time going down that road. If you have given the customer a written quotation with an appointment, date and time on it then the customer cannot now say that there is some mistake. It is she that has broken your verbal contract and as the rugs were being done as a condition of the rest of the work it is not unreasonable to ask to be paid for the time and effort taken on them. If this does get unpleasant I would just ask for a reasonable amount for the rugs and your time wasted and forget about the rest of the work as the customer will be looking for any reason to find complaint.
Peter
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This is a tricky one - if she is savvy she could demand you return the rugs as you have no legal right to hold on to them.
If you "re-soil" them she could claim you damaged the rugs
To claim a cancellation charge you will have to prove, as Yorky states. that it was clear on your quotation.
The only legal recourse you have is to send her an invoice for the cleaning of the rugs and the cancallation charge if appropriate and hope she pays. If she refused to pay you can take her to small claims court but of course there is a risk you may not win!
Nick
I'd agree with Nick on this one.
The one thing in her favour and that would seem indicate her original intention, is that she let you take the rugs in the first place. She must have therefore intended for you to come back and clean the carpets at that point. She may have therefore genuinely forgotten when the work was booked for. Did you call the day before to confirm?
The other possibility, and an assumption based on your own comment about you quote being expensive, is that she subsequently received another quote that was cheaper and went with them.
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Gont mention anything about a cancellation fee to her. If she states that she no longer wishes to have her carpets cleaned you will need to be firm and advise her that the rugs were only to be cleaned free of charge under the condition that she had the carpets cleaned to the value of your quote. Let her know that the full cost of removing the rugs off site, cleaning then returning would be £175.00. She will need to be informed that the rugs will be available once payment in cash or cleared funds have entered you bank account. Be firm but polite.
Richie.
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how many days from survey to appointment date
if less than 7 days then she has the right to cancel but she should of called you
just send the invoice for the rug clean, with a note on saying you will ring to confirm payment and delivery date on the rugs, if she replies then you have proof of contract.
be careful as customers like these have big mouths and if she is one of those that goes to coffee mornings, 10 more ladies (with loads of money) will know your name.
good luck
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Write and say as we have cleaned the rugs you will need to charge £--- but you happily waive the cancellation fee and if you can be of service etc etc. Your reputation is worth much more than any satisfaction you might have.
Make sure your quotation has a cancellation charge to cover costs, mine is my minimum charge.
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I could be wrong, but this sounds like a typical " Mrs Bucket " scenario, where a woman aspires to a lifestyle she really can't afford but will never admit to it. She can't afford your prices but will NEVER ADMIT THAT. She probably got a price she could genuinely afford and the job's been done or arranged to be done by someone else.
This happens to carpet cleaners every day and not just the high charging ones.
Unfortunately, you've voluntarily taken away her carpets and cleaned them which made logistic sense, but.................what if she cancelled ?
They're not your property so have to be returned
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Jon tell the who are to come and collect them if she wants them.Regards Alan(swindon)
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Lets be honest it has happened to all of us and it is very annoying and lost money if another job was turned down because of it. I had two at Christmas but just walk away and forget it because in the end it's always going to happen. I usually lose them I think on price where people find someone cheaper and don't want to phone to cancell. Given your pricing which Is about the highest I have ever heard of for a days work (well done) that's probably what has happened to you.
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Thanks all for your advice,
I have sent her an invoice today for £100 + vat for the rug cleaning. She will need to pay this or come and collect the rugs which will be dirty again.
The cancellation fee would be to much hassle to pursue so I am not going to ask for it. She will need to pay it though if she wants her carpets cleaned. (As someone said I would'nt want the work now anyway).
cheers jon
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That sounds fair enough if you ask me.
I had a phone call today from a Scouser in sheltered accommodation in St Ives (Cornwall), he sounded rough and was asking me how much for an oven and carpets cleaned... I said he'd be looking at a forhell of a lot of money :o, just to get him to sod off! Sometimes it's easy to see you've got a time waster and in other cases (like yours) it's that bit more difficult.
Hope all is resolved soon enough for you!
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Jon
In matters like this imagine it being scrutinised by a judge at a later date i know its sounds a bit dramatic but as long as you are "fair and reasonable" you will not have to worry about comebacks.
You are entitled to be paid for cleaning the rugs charge what is fair and reasonable even if its the top rate but not a penny more.
Your waisted time is fair and reasonable but do you have it in writing that a cancellation charge is payable.
I think it is reasonable to ask for "cleared funds" before you return the rugs especially after her previous no show, keep copies of all correspondence, just in case.
Good luck
James
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We all suffer this kind of thing occasionally, personally thankfully rarely, but it does happen.
Sounds like the price was on the high side if it could still be done in the half day remaining, when the Tech was there, or should I say Very high side.
It is a fact that when charging very high prices to average domestic customers, you can expect to have an above average number of cancellations and no shows. As this case shows it can also happen with above average domestics too. Purchaser remorse is a powerful emotion, which can lead to otherwise reasonable people doing unreasonable things.
Dave.
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Painful as it is, I think you've made the right decision !
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If the rugs are on your signed quote or survey sheet then you can charge her the going rate for the free items if she cancels the items that actually qualified her for the free rug cleaning. seeing as youve done the rugs
also it could be said she hasn't really cancelled the job she has just prevented you from finishing it as youve done the rugs.
Verbel agreements dont mean that much in law or i could say you owed me all sorts and see who the small claims courts believed
cant put the soil back on the rugs its a contaminant type thing, you cant just infect peoples stuff with concentrated germy water.
you might get away with dropping the rugs outside her house in the pouring rain but wouldn't reccomend it lol
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£695 for half a days work and £150 for two 2x9 rugs is high by anyones standards. Maybe she just didnt have the bottle to say so but it is a pain in the butt. I think you did the right thing in the end although i would have phoned her first.
Had one today complaining things are tight as she opened the door of her range rover.
Mark
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Mark, she was probably talking about her G string :)
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Hope not as she was about your age.
60!!
Mark