Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james roffey on February 20, 2010, 03:30:36 pm
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Since starting last year i have never felt as comfortable selling upholstery cleaning as i do carpet cleaning i think it is because i do not see it as good value myself, so this doubt is passed on to my customers not that i am asked to do a lot of upholstery i have only done one three piece suite that i have charged the £30 per bum which was the standard charge i found is being charged on the forums i have done a few smaller jobs on upholstery but its tough justifying £150- 200 to clean a sofa and two chairs.
I have seen threads where it has been claimed that some are charging a lot more than this but unless they are suites that cost several thousand pounds then i dont see how they do it.
the vast majority including the quite well off have suites that cost between £700- 2000 so why would these people pay £150-400 to clean them, carpets yes i can understand,
they are one of the biggest investments home owners make but the vast majority of stores sell suites for under £1000.
I know upholstery cleaning is very time consuming but explaining this in a way the customer can grasp is hard to do, unlike carpet cleaning
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"they are one of the biggest investments home owners make but the vast majority of stores sell suites for under £1000."
I Doubt that the vast majority have suites for under 1k , and certainly not the better off, ok you may get the odd one from ikea or argos , but even the discount furniture stores scs, dfs harveys etc etc dont have suites under 1K . dont take too much notice of all the sale adverts we get bombarded with, most of the adverts will be for 1 item ie. a sofa then add a couple of chairs or a pouffe ,footstool ,scatter cushions and then see what the price works out at.
try asking your custy what sort of price they paid ,in a diplomatic way of course ;) , most will tell you more than they actually paid, they dont like to admit they bought cheap in a sale, then you will have some ammunition to make the justification in your price.
Myself i now charge a minimum of £120 depending on soiling etc, or if they are having any more work done .
Geoff
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James
First off, forget the suite prices you see on TV from the big multiples. Look carefully at what they're offering and you will see that they are grotesque pieces, often very large, that few people will actually buy. It looks good on TV though and entices punters to walk through their door. They are then hit with the upholstery that they would actually want to buy which have less attractive prices. Most of the suites that I clean are, on current new valuation, more likely to be £1500-£2000 and more.
As others have stated, after the house and the car, the typical most expensive capital items in a home tend to be floor coverings (collectively) and the three piece suit. The dining suite can also be included, but it's a low cost maintenance item. People don't buy quality to want to look after them cheap.
Try to think of yourself as offering a service of value to your prospect, not on low cost price. If price was always the deciding factor, we'd all be driving small, imported Asian cars, have something like a Goblin vacuum cleaner and be sitting at plastic "patio" style dinner tables.
The biggest barrier to fair and reasonable charges is often in the mind of the seller, not the buyer.
With your sales delivery during audit, ask them the right questions, do a thorough inspection, tell them about their suite eg fibre content, condition of fabric, foam, seams etc. etc. Give them realistic expectations, so that they can feel reassured that they have a knowledgeable and reliable tradesman in their home. The price comes at the end.
Something that works for many of us is to also break down the quotation, so chairs cost £x, small sofa costs £y and large sofa costs £z. Pouffees cost £s, scatter cushions £t and arm sleeves £r. Prospects can then see what they are paying for. If your charges are high enough, and if you are feeling generous, you could always offer to clean the arm sleeves and/or scatters for free as an incentive to have the whole suite cleaned.
Finally, and especially relevant to many newbies, When you were an employed person, lets say you were earning £12 per hour. Now, as a self employed buinessman, you may be earning, for example, £40 per hour. But you do not make a PROFIT of £40 per hour. Some of the things you need to deduct from that figure include the time and cost in travelling, chemical costs, advertising, general transport and adminsitration costs, insurance etc. etc. Lets say that you have now halved this figure per hour to £20. As capital purchases are made from profit (they are not a business overhead) you also need to set aside for your next machines and upgrades, van, computer etc. etc. You're not now earning as much as you thought. My point in all this being that many newbies will relate their earnings as a business to what their salary was as an employee. It "does their brain in" 'cos they think that they have become a rip-off merchant. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's what you have to do to survive in this society.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
The Ken
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I agree with ken, you can get easily in the mind set of thinking a price is expensive, but sell with confidence and stick to your guns.
The customer won't be paying you if you hurt your back, are off with flu etc.
I made the mistake of menu pricing carpet cleaning, now I visit each customer and if they don't like the price I walk.
Simple
regards
Mr B
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I usually price over the phone but am starting to go out and see jobs, upholstery is harder to sell over the phone but when you go and see it you can get higher prices plus protection. I still need training on onsite audits but slowly getting there but it is worth going out to see them as you can get £200 a suite with protector some get even more.
Shaun
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Thanks for response especially from Ken that was amazing you always take the time to give a thorough reponse to those that need help and its very much apreciated, i feel a bit clearer in my head now :)
I have adopted from the off, the theory that i will charge a good rate taking my charges from one of the most successul carpet cleaners on here no names though, and i have pretty much stuck with this, i thought that i want the customers who want quality and that has paid of yes i lose a few but the way i reconcile this is thinking they are not the customers i want in the first place, so let someone else do it for peanuts they will always want it done for that price. its just with the carpets i have what i think is a confident sales pitch although i dont close all deals for carpets a wont ever expect too either, some just want it done cheap and see no difference in what you are providing to the guy working out of a hatchback, thats to be expected i see this as a long term thing get the best customers who will pay a fair rate but it is a gamble and frustrating too, as i know i could get more work.
I did one this week gave the price to the customer he wanted it cheaper, the two rooms he wanted were full of clutter that i was expected to move and carpets were covered in stains some of which were permanent the usual bleach stains etc, he then went on to say well i am worried that it wont look any different, i told him if you dont think it looks better you can have it for nothing :o said he would talk to his wife, heard nothing, but i am not losing sleep thinking about that great customer i lost.
I agree with Ken, if you think you are expensive you will pass this doubt to the customer i do close a lot of deals at a good rate but room for improvement on the uphostery sales pitch.
You are spot on about earnings i was on exactly £12 per hour before and now earning a lot more but i need to as the first thing i did was calculate my expenses, marketing being the biggest wow that was scary i was very shocked.
At the moment 90% is being ploughed back into the company i take nothing out for myself as i am trying to build a bit of a cushion for harder times although it is very hard at the moment, i must be doing something right though my only two jobs next week, so far are two previous customers i only have around sixty customers in total im thinking if i had ten times that ;D
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Think you'll find the standard charge is a lot less than £30 a seat, especially round here.
John
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If price was always the deciding factor, we'd all be driving small, imported Asian cars, have something like a Goblin vacuum cleaner and be sitting at plastic "patio" style dinner tables.
Ken,
This just cracked me up. ;D
Mind you I might just get my Ninja, hoses buckets and a couple of prespotters in the back of the Suzuki Swift - mind you the patio table would be a stretch even with the boot open.
Cheers
Mike
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John
Out of the last 3 suite jobs I have quoted for over the phone - I got one at £160, one at £150 and lost the £70 one. Thats fine with me.
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The standard charge around my area , Bromley , Kent is £20/seating unit . As Shaun has said you can also put on a protector, which would double the price . ;D
Dave
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I would too go with the 100 to120 pounds to clean a suite.
Dont forget some do the free carpet clean in the deal when they do clean there suite so they have to charge more..
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Joe
So you quoted one at £70??
Clinton
They aren't actually just quoting for the 3 piece then
they're quoting for the "free" carpet.
John
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No John
I was asked how much for a 3+2, after asking for a few details ie location, fabric, and condition I stated £140 (local), to which she proudly said she would be using *** as they quoted £70. Not interested at that price.
I do offer free lounge clean (up to a certain sq footage) if fabric suite cleaned.
The price I quote for suite will be my top price.
Note I stipulate "fabric" suite - not applicable if it is leather. Once you are there and set up, doing a lounge carpet does not take too long, and the overspray is not as important as you are doing the carpet next anyway.
They may be on limited budget anyway, so they feel they can only afford a suite clean. Cleaning a carpet gives them a massive feel good factor.
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The biggest problem with upholstery pricing is the cheapo cleaners charging £50 to clean a suite and clean it well for that.
Some read this board Im sad to say.
They dont IMO know the real cost of doing business and what their worth and damage the industry.
Most customers can see thru the cowboy types.
Mark
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start at poll and see what people charge per seat, 10, 15, 20, 25, or above. never done a poll on here so not sure how too
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Mark
Would I be the cowboy you refer to?
I charge £70 sometimes £80 if I think the customer will stand it.
I do a good job so how am I a cowboy?
By the way I must be doing something right, been going 23 months now and made a decent profit both years.
So maybe I do know the real cost of doing business.
Pray tell how it damages the industry by doing a good job at a reasonable, affordable price.
John
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We charge £35.00
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per seat ? or per suite :o
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I don't get involved with price arguements I just like to learn from those who can teach me into getting the best price I deserve for my knowledge and investment, let's face it if someone is offering more service ie better cleaning or faster drying or specialised stuffs then surely they should charge for the 'premium' service?
Shaun
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even some suites are more soiled than others,so what do we do then?
Do we offer them a cheaper price or dom it for he usual price ???
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JandS
The cowboy I was refering to are those who do poor Quality work and dont care regardless of the price they charge.
If you do great work then great but i dont see how anyone can run a good business AND make good money and charge £70 for a suite which takes two hours. Just my opinion.
Having said that your newish to the game so time will build confidence to charge more which you deserve.
Upholstery cleaning is back breaking work. If I could Id charge £300 for a suite.
Mark
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Clinton By Ek ya got sites now ;D
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JandS
The cowboy I was refering to are those who do poor Quality work and dont care regardless of the price they charge.
If you do great work then great but i dont see how anyone can run a good business AND make good money and charge £70 for a suite which takes two hours. Just my opinion.
Having said that your newish to the game so time will build confidence to charge more which you deserve.
Upholstery cleaning is back breaking work. If I could Id charge £300 for a suite.
Mark
All depends on your overheads in the end. It costs very little in solutions. I would say up this way the average for an independant is £70 a suite.
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Where you from Yorkie?
Mark I think you need some fitness training :o I don't find that upholstery is physically challenging or back breaking more of harder to sell for the work and risks involved compared to the ease of carpet cleaning.
Shaun
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got to agree with shaun
this cleaning lark is a doddle.
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Where you from Yorkie?
Mark I think you need some fitness training :o I don't find that upholstery is physically challenging or back breaking more of harder to sell for the work and risks involved compared to the ease of carpet cleaning.
Shaun
I'm north of Glasgow. I charge £110-120 but still lose a lot at that price. Franchise set ups are charging between £80-130 with the independants anythihg from £50-90.
I don't know of a single cleaner that charges more than that for an average suite without protectant. I would love to get £160 per suite and don't mind the work but I can't get near that price without the conversion rate hitting the floor.
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Ricky ;D
Were getting all mod cons up here just ask shaun ;D
Thats cheap for a franchise to clean for prices starting at 80 pounds..
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We charge £35.00
£35 per seat ;)
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£30 - £35 per seat. Any less and you're mugging yourselves.
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i'm mugging my self ;D
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£30 - £35 per seat. Any less and you're mugging yourselves.
Never going to happen in Scotland. The Scots are far too tight.
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Does the customer buy?
Or does the businessman sell?
Safe and happy cleaning :)
The Ken
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bitta both innit ken ;D
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Does the customer buy?
Or does the businessman sell?
Safe and happy cleaning :)
The Ken
Both, and trust me we all do our best up here but it's a funny market and I don't know of anyone who manages to achieve those prices (and I know a lot of people).
I think if enough cleaners managed to get the average up things would be easier, but when the average is so low you are totally out on a limb with those prices. My local Servicemaster is £80.
Great if you get it but the real world in my area is different.
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Presume from your comment Yorky you're a " white settler "or you would know from travelling abroad which countrymen are regarded as tightest with their cash. A clue....... within the UK and south of Hadrian's wall.
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Presume from your comment Yorky you're a " white settler "or you would know from travelling abroad which countrymen are regarded as tightest with their cash. A clue....... within the UK and south of Hadrian's wall.
Ye we Yorkshiremen are just as bad ;)
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j & s, that seems very low to me also but i suppose it depends a bit on your area and how you sell yourself to the customer. i am daan saath so perhaps my customers have a bit more lolly to spend but to be honest i don't really like cleaning furniture, unlike shaun i think they are hard work, it sometimes feels like i've done 10 rounds with ricky hatton when i finish a big old beast of a suite, i charge around £140 every time, if they don't like that price, fine, use someone else.
colin
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But if they do use someone else, say at £100 are they earning more than you while you are sitting at home? How many a week do you that charge £30+ per seat get through?
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There's at least 5 other cc's within a 5 mile radius of me, a Rainbow and a Chemdry as well.
The other 5 all charge between £60 and £80 so banging my price up above the £100 mark
is just a no brainer.
Don't know what the 2 franchises charge, in fact might give them a ring.
John
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There's at least 5 other cc's within a 5 mile radius of me, a Rainbow and a Chemdry as well.
The other 5 all charge between £60 and £80 so banging my price up above the £100 mark
is just a no brainer.
Don't know what the 2 franchises charge, in fact might give them a ring.
John
I would guess around the £125- £130 mark for your area.
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Dave p
Good point with the sat at home bit.Thats the problem what we are going into when lets say we loose a job at 130 or get the job at a lower price ::)
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But if they do use someone else, say at £100 are they earning more than you while you are sitting at home?
Rather than sitting at home whilst someone else is earning only modest fees for their services, many of us will be working for other customers who appreciate our level of service and pay appropriately.
Whether fees charged are low, modest or high does not necessarily reflect the standard of cleanliness achieved, but there are so many other factors required to make a premium service. We all choose the course of our own business' and follow that route. Low cost does not necessarily relate to cheap, just as high cost does not necessarily relate to expensive. There's enough work and enough room for all types of business.
Let's all agree to be different.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
The Ken
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why do people pay me £130-£140 to clean their suite when they can get 10 other companies within 10 miles of me to do it a lot cheaper inc' 2 companies that will do it for £35?
why don't I charge £80 like the rest of them?
let me tell you (and some of you need to write this down)
most customers don't know how much it cost to have their suite cleaned, until you tell them
if I tell them £80 then they think it cost £80 if I tell them £140 then they think it cost £140. they don't know that 10 other companies will only charge them £60 because those 10 companies are not stood in front of them or talking to them on the phone. If you book the job then it doesn't matter what anyone else charges.
using other companies prices to justify your own price is daft
and if I don't get the job at £130 it doesn't mean I will be sat at home doing nothing, if I don't fill the space with that job I'll fill it with another one
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Most do know how much it cost as odds are they have called or will call a few, we all do it, get 3 quotes when looking for a service and go for not the cheapest, but the one who sounds like he knows what he's doing ;)
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Hi Guys
It is frustrating when you don't get a job, especially if you need one!
I like the other established guys quote what I want and if the prospect doesn't want me then someone else will.
For those with less work, I would only say discount if you have a specific reason, otherwise you will end up going lower and lower until you are a cheap cleaner, complaining you don't make any money.
It is better to spend your time generating good quality work , than rush around making little and getting nowhere.
Cheers
Doug
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sat at home?
waiting for the phone to ring?
lazy fkrs. get off your ass and leaflet. or do an email campaign or, actually, you sit at home.
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why do people pay me £130-£140 to clean their suite when they can get 10 other companies within 10 miles of me to do it a lot cheaper inc' 2 companies that will do it for £35?
why don't I charge £80 like the rest of them?
let me tell you (and some of you need to write this down)
most customers don't know how much it cost to have their suite cleaned, until you tell them
if I tell them £80 then they think it cost £80 if I tell them £140 then they think it cost £140. they don't know that 10 other companies will only charge them £60 because those 10 companies are not stood in front of them or talking to them on the phone. If you book the job then it doesn't matter what anyone else charges.
using other companies prices to justify your own price is daft
and if I don't get the job at £130 it doesn't mean I will be sat at home doing nothing, if I don't fill the space with that job I'll fill it with another one
They may not where you live but they certainly do where I live because they phone a good few companies and compare.
I don't think any of us disagree that there is way more to a job than just price. It's just a balance between what you would like to receive and what the customer will pay. If you are a super salesman all power to you I'm not at that stage but constantly try to improve my technique.
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Same here unfortunately.
John
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Just had a look on the Chemdry website for your area Whiterose charge £168.00 for a 3 seater and 2 chairs.
I do believe that there is a north south divide on over the phone prices, Doug gets some big job tickets that we don't get up here.
Shaun
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What are we trying to be? the best upholstery cleaners in town or the cheapest.
£75 and £80 for a 3 piece suite is ridiculous and if thats all you are charging, you deserve to work for someone and not be self employed. ::)
Hard work and expertise that you have deserves a bigger ticket price than £75 surely.
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The other thing is is where are your leads coming from. If its Ypages then yes its harder as theres maybe 20+ companies with their phone number in the customers face. If its flyers then you are in with a better chance.
Also most of those who get the higher prices quote in the home so that cost has to be taken into consideration against pricing over the phone.
Many years ago I cleaned for another company for £38 a suite and we saw some mingers at that price. You dont see too many mingers once you go over £100. Thats my theory anyway.
Mark
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Logically, if my suite is'nt a " minger " should it not require LESS PRODUCT and LESS TIME to clean and therefore cost LESS not MORE
This is the logic that's commonly used in pricing carpet cleaning !
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I agree with mark, price is dependant on where the work is coming from. I have been going three years and havn't managed to break into 'top end' work yet. Most of my work comes from local paper advertising which I find attracts lower prices as the competition are budget cleaners charging from £25. I will not match their prices but on average can only get £50/£55 for a fabric 3 piece.
Peter
Beta Clean