Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: wayne zabel on February 20, 2010, 02:45:51 pm
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Went out leafleting this morning and struck up a conversation with a guy cleaning his car on the drive,I asked him if I could leave him a card about mmy CC services,he said he was intersted in having a lounge cleaned but his wife thought that having a carpet cleaned would mean it would go dirtier quicker.I tried the best I could to explain that in this day and age with better equipment and cleaning processes that this isn't really true.
I have encountered this question on numerous occasions whilst cleaning and leafleting,whats the best explanations that you guys give to this question - I'm sure you all get asked the same thing.
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I went back to a friends house i had cleaned about a week before it came up very well at the time,but on returning the area by the kitchen door was dirty again i suspect that when a carpet is dirty you are unlikely to notice it getting a bit dirtier, but after it is cleaned then any further soling really stands out, just a theory of mine though, but plausible.
i believe Resoiling can occure if the carpet is not rinsed thoroughly as well
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Carpet should not really get dirt that quick, well unless they are mucky pups. Dust it with water and agitate then blot with a towel. If it foams there is a residue in there and needs rinsing with either acidic rinse or maybe water. When using a detergent with a high ph say 8-10 you will need to use an acidic rinse to stabilise either as an after spray which can be groomed in or as rinse in the solution tank. Some higher ph rinses claim to crystallise so they will vac away. Rinsing with plain water may also help, depends on ph. After cleaning just check the ph with a test strip try it on some samples. If i'm using powerburst for example I will rinse with clearwater rinse the cleaning work has already been done by the pre-spray. It's important to rinse thoroughly, some rush around and leave residue. I take my time, if i'm rushing i'm not charging enough.
In general I use DFC 105, 210 and microsplitters, unless I am doing black top. I have several repeat customers particularly schools and i've checked for residue and re-soiling and i've not found any.
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With regards to the above post.......As a newbie this is were I get a little confused.On all the courses I have done the general rule of thumb was alaline prespray then acidic rinse to neutralise and balance.
However after reading this forum it would appear that most will only acid rinse on wool or wool rich carpets and will rinse with say Double clean or Crystal Green (both highly alkaline)when doing synthetic carpets.
Isn't this going to leave a carpet in an a high alkaline condition which in turn will leave the carpet open to rapid resoiling.
Can an experienced CC shed some light on this conumdrum?
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This is where experience comes in, if you are cleaning a minger then you may have to hit it hard, will you spoil an already spoiled carpet? probably not the ph balance of a greasy carpet and then high ph product would probably neutalise it BUT many times cleaners in their infinate wisdom will hit it hard just for speed.
Keep to the rules and you won't have a problem but you will know when to move away from them intime, courses can't teach you this it's more of a problem solving excercise through trial and error that's why we should go through the pre vac and pre spray and aggitate stages as it makes the chemical work to its full potential but sometimes 'problem solvers' need to be used as well or instead of.
Shaun
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I believe that 9 times out of 10 when the carpet gets dirty quite quickly it is the customers fault.
When someone has a brand new carpet there is normally a hardline policy of no out door shoes allowed inside, after 12 months this rule goes out the window and that's when we start getting called in.
Trouble is after we have cleaned it, does the customer treat it as brand new carpet? Do they heck. So by continueing with the outdoor shoes worn inside policy the easy person to blame for them getting dirty again isn't the householder but the carpet cleaner.
That's the line I run with potential customers.
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Same here Neil , it's a state of mind!
I bring the carpet upto like new and then tell them that if they treat it the same as they did just before I cleaned it then they'll see me back very soon BUT I do recommend that they have it cleaned so it doesn't get too bad again, well you wouldn't want it to get like 'that' again :o
Shaun
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With shaun on this
Have been asked the same questions and if its a new client asking you the question and you no your not getting anywere explaining i just move on.
Its all down to experience and supose the cleaning courses just give you a bit of knowledge to get you started..
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Shaun so what your'e saying is basically .....If its a minger then rinse with an alkaline extraction agent,if its not too bad then rinse with Fabric and Fibre?
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"Will a cleaned carpet get dirtier quicker once it's been cleaned?"
"Yes, madam. But only if it's done incorrectly."
I like to mention 3 reasons why it may apparently re-soil more quickly. Firstly it may be left with an incorrect ph balance which could result in increased soil being attracted to the carpet.
Secondly some cleaning products have soap (or similar) in them. Whilst these will effectively clean the carpet they will leave a sticky residue which will attract soil.
"Thirdly, madam, do you remember the advert on TV for Flash. The lady with the black and white checked kitchen floor which she lets get into a minging state? Then with one sweep of her Flash the tiles are back to their original brilliant clean state. Well if you have a minging carpet and then have it cleaned you will now start to see it re-soiling. it won't be doing it any more quickly than before the clean it's just that you now notice the difference because you are aware of it."
Works for me-especially as you apparently start off by agreeing with them. Then the client is more likely to listen to your explanation. it also gives you a chance to subtly demonstrate that you know what you are talking about rather than simply trying to overcome their objections.
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Roger hi ph products have never been proved to cause rapid resoiling (not that I'm a scientist but it was the answer I got from Richard Suddall from Chemspec)
Shaun
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Shaun
True enough (probably) but by posing it as a possible reason the client is still more inclined to think you know more than they do. Said with confidence they are more likely to book you to clean the carpets.
Roger
PS Then why all the hoo-har about returning wool carpets to neutral/acid state? ???
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The alkali will damage the wool fibre.
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High ph product may perish wool but not make it re soil - something else to tell them ;D
Shaun
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As a general rule of thumb on wool its better to stay neutral with prespray and rinse rather then high ph prespray then having to neutralise .
Highph might not cause resoiling directly but as commented earlier the damage to the wool would cause it to accept soiling more readily.
Mike
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I think the high ph depreciation is negligable dependant on most high ph products but the risk is still there, I have been to customers who have but alsorts of degreases etc on their carpets and it may have caused discolouration at the most but not many that have ruined anything.
Shaun
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here's another theory on what causes re soiling,
I believe carpet cleaners put down too much pre-spray, then try and extract it with too finer jets, they might use a 3 jet wand but if the have 01 or 15 jets so they don't have the flow rate to totally flush out the pre-spray. I think this is especially true if they use an inline sprayer.
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Perhaps you are right also there could be the fact that carpets are damp and customers are walking on them too early with out door shoes? I think it's an ongoing problem which posibly could be solved by the 2 theories.
Shaun
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My understanding and memory tells me that rapid resoiling was / is the result of using soapy shampoos which is really all that was available 25 years ago.
Modern chemicals - if used properly - should NOT cause resoiling.
I believe many c/c 's apply far more chemical than necessary, so struggle to remove it which could accelerate resoiling.
Chucking acidic rinse at carpets with residue will neutralise but if it ain't rinsed out the residue wll cause resoiling no matter the PH level.
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got to agree with the bobster on that one, we've all seen the after effects of carpets cleaned by rug doctors.
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I tried to deal with this issue on my web site. I think it is important to educate customers that they clean their carpets without fear of resoiling. It seems to be a piece of propoganda passed down through the generations that you shouldn't clean your carpets. It also helps the financially timid to justify not spending money on maintenance.
http://designcare.co.uk/uncategorized/will-cleaning-my-carpets-ruin-them/
Nigel
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So are you saying powerburst followed by oneclean (or the alternatives) is fine provided it's rinsed properly. And is poor rinsing the only reason for re-soiling ??? ??? I've done miles of carpet full of residue with acidic rinsing it would of been cheaper to have used oneclean. DFC, Microsplitters Nemisis, and M Power all sell on no detergents no residues no re-soiling. Each of these per 5 litres is a lot more expensive than say powerburst so if eco awareness isn't important head for the tub. Nearly every carpet cleaning website makes the claim no residues, can we only claim this if we rinse properly regardless of the rinse properties ??? This is fascinating. I exclude wool or blends high ph cleaners on these are still a :o for me.
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My understanding and memory tells me that rapid resoiling was / is the result of using soapy shampoos which is really all that was available 25 years ago.
Modern chemicals - if used properly - should NOT cause resoiling.
I believe many c/c 's apply far more chemical than necessary, so struggle to remove it which could accelerate resoiling.
Chucking acidic rinse at carpets with residue will neutralise but if it ain't rinsed out the residue wll cause resoiling no matter the PH level.
Is it possible to give an quantity of pre spray in litres that should be used on a medium soiled carpet of say 12 foot square?
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The quantity to use would depnd on several factors such as the degree of soiling, the product being used and the type of carpet.
A simple approach would be to follow the instructions, (I am not being facetious), and if you are still unsure, most product manufactures have a technical help line for if you are faced with an unusual situation. If you are using a product that does not have such information on it, it may not be reputable.
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i think you just get a feel for how much is needed and obviously if you have to use a lot then you need to up the flush so to speak. if your worried youve left some in get a damp towel and give the carpet a rub where youve put the most down. see if it foams
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I gave up following instructions many years ago as every job is different and has to be approached individually. Another point is, would you apply product to the whole carpet or to the traffic lanes and obviously soiled areas.
If you use microsplitters you spray a mist so use less product. It's feasible to clean without prespraying at all and rely on the power of the machine and effectiveness of the chosen chemical.
Even spraying water will help by breaking surface tension
I'm afraid it's personal choice resulting from experimenting with as many products as you can find.