Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: stevehinnis on February 14, 2010, 05:04:56 pm
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When I set the gauge on my CFR 500 to 500 psi.the upholstery
Tool works fine and the pressure gauge stays at 500.If I connect the glide wand or stair tool, when I depress the trigger the pressure gauge drops To 100 psi.What do you think is the problem.
Steve.
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Just as I thought.
No one gives a fluck
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or perhaps no one so far knows, but give it more than half an hour and you might get an answer ::)
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Just a guess but if your upholstery tool keeps up the pressure i think it could possibly be a prob witht he wand maybe try another wand or change the k valve and see if that make sa dif. Bit of a strange one. but thats my hunch
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Blimey Mike.
Now I know how to get a quick answer.With your wealth of experience, dont you know.
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has it always done it or has it just started?
if you allow a lot of flow through the pump then the pressure will drop, a pressure gauge measures 'trapped' pressure, if you put an open pipe on a pump then the pressure gauge would read zero
this is why it hold up with a restrictive small jet of the upholstery tool, but drops with the large Orifice of the floor wand jet
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Dont think its anything to do with your wand or hand tools i used to get the same problem with the Hydramaster Raptor you will need somebody like Amtech to look at the pump it might need serviced.
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Steve are you saying when you connect the stair tool the water output drops as well or just the gauge
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AJB is your man think he knows his stuff about these pumps.
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Steve not familiar with you machine, but if your pump is dropping psi the plunger could be sticking service pump checking plunger and seals just a hunch hope this helps
SORRY FOR THE SLOW REPLY EVEN GOD RESTS ON SUNDAY ;D
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Yes Clinton. When I connect the stair tool the gauge drops and the water pressure fom the jets drops.
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Mike.Because the wand has 3 jets compared with 1 on the upholstery tool,is that why the pressure gauge drops.And Richard,I will try another wand.
Steve.
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I would have thought the drop should normally be about 50psi.
If you have a Wonderwand with standard jets I think thay are not very big jets anyway.
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Joe. It drops from over 500 to 100.
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Think of the PSI as being a measure of resistence to flow.
Closed valve=total resistence, maximum pressure reading on guage.
Single small upholstery jet=high resistence to flow and high guage reading on open valve.
Floor wand with high flow jets=minimum resistence to flow and low guage reading on open valve.
If the open valve readings are lower than they should be, there is a fault or obstruction somewhere. This could be in the wand valve or possibly detergent residue build up, especially if powder detergents have been used. I used to encounter this myself with my Flojet/Shureflo pumps, so just ran some very hot water through the pump which solved the problem.
Most likely cause is wear in the internal pump components. A service should cure this. The two service kits required for a Pumptec pump cost me about £75 last time. More if you need a new cam/bearing kit. Labour is extra, plus Vodka And Tonic.
When all is repaired and working well, may I suggest recording flow rates through your wand and other tools at certain pressures. You will then have a reference point for the future.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
The Ken
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Ken. The gauge readings on the single upholstery tool stay high. The stair tool is only a single jet, but causes the gauge to drop to 100.I don’t understand why the pressure keeps up on the upholstery tool even though the stair tool only has 1 jet.
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You could have different size jets in upholstery tool compared to stair tool, check what size they are, stamped into face of jet, 1 could be an 01 and maybe the other an 04 or higher, i am refering to the last 2 numbers on the jet, 01 puts out much less than say 06 and will hold up pressure better.
Andrew
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It's the combined size of the jets that matter Steve, not the number of jets. A typical upholstery tool will have an 01 which will pass 0.1 gallons (US) @ 40psi, more at higher pressures. A typical single jet floor hand tool will have an 04 or even 06 jet, so will pass 4 or 6 times more water than the upholstery tool. If it's a worn jet, even more. 50% more isn't unusual. So, it's possible for a hand tool to have a higher water flow than your floor wand.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
The Ken
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Steve the 2 posts from ken & andrew are spot on your looking at this problem from the wrong end of the hose check cam bearing plunger pump seals.
PFSI = POUNDS FORCED PER SQUARE INCH THE F WORD WAS DROPPED MANY YEARS AGO
DONT TELL GORDON RAMSEY HE WOULD NOT BE HAPPY ;D
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Hi Guys
Have you tried the filters, it may be that you are just not getting enough flow to maintain pressure on larger wand.
Cheers
Doug
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Steve
I've just had a chat with Wiggy from Wigston who runs a CFR 400, and he tells me that another common problem with users is that it may be the the mesh filter out at the end of the wand is clogged....unscrew the brass lid, remove filter and blast with handtool jet at 400 psi...that will prbably do it.
On CFR machines, it's imperative that all filters from tank through wand are always kept clean.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
The Ken
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Ken just a thought if the mesh filter was blocked reducing flo, would that not give you a higher psi reading.
Please understand i am not in any way questioning your judgement, just trying to get my head round this thought regards steve.
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Happy mondays
The airflex turbo looks a serious bit of kit with 3 vac motors & 600psi.
but with 150ft of hose wand and in line heater which would get you heat at the business end ie nearer the wand would cost more to 4k than 3k
The scorpion from solutions would also be worth a look personally i would want to have a go with any of these machines before parting with that sort of cash.
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Hi, ive read the post with interest, apart from this problem, are they good machines? enquired about an airflex turbo, but really want a portable that has the heater buit in and can be used at 150ft, extracta xl, cfr, etc, got about a 3k budget, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Paul
Paul
The airflex is an excellant machine all though its my backup now for the tm. If you are planning at running at 150 ft with a 3 vac porty an inline heater is the only way to go because you are not going to produce much heat fro an emersion style heater at those hose lengths. I would say 100ft is more realistic to use the machine effectively to achieve good drying times (ran mine at 100ft from van no heat ). If heat is required the in-line heater can be plumbed in at 25 ft to give you heat at the business end.
The alltec triple vac has an emersion style heater but as far as i am aware correct me if wrong the 3rd vac and heater cant be on at same time so i guess the tank is cooling all the time plus i have heard that when the tank is full its takes a long while to heat up.
regards
Richard
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I am presuming its a pumptec pump same as my speedster . I had similar problem , ordered and fitted new pump head ( £150 ) easy job . Inspected faulty head on removal , it was abit of alloy casing under one of the valves causing it to stay open hence loss of pressure . So you could take the head off and inspect the valves are seating right.
Mike
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Why not go second hand say minimum spec 135psi twin vac around a grand see how things go then spend 3k when you feel ready to move up this machine could still be a good back up or if things didnt work out for you you could probaly get say £500 back there will still be plenty of porties for 3k in 12 to 18 months that i can guarantee you keeping 2k back would be far wiser.
Just my thoughts at the end of the day your 3k your choice good luck to you 8)
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I had the same problem with the 500 powerflite machine, using a 3 jet wonderwand. It has a smaller 500 psi pump so can`t maintain a steady back pressure when the trigger is opened, thus dropping off. The pump was ok with a 2 jet wonder wand, or 1 jet upholstery tool. You could try smaller jets, but it is good for the pump, as not running such high psi.
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Thanks everyone for your advice and knowledge on the subject. I will go through everything until I solve the problem.
Steve.
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In most cases 50ft of hose with machine at front door or bottom of stairs willl cover your standard home so no need to take upstairs.
WHAT MACHINE that has got to be the most asked question on this forum
second to CLEAN LOL ;D ;D
Your location is a big factor also when buying new say you bought a ninja 135psi good machine but you live in scotland thats a long wat to bring it back even under warranty as you would have to make 2 round trips as its rare they would fix it on the spot
You mention the prochem course you did they would naturaly like to sell you their machine
Ford would sale you a focus before the astra i suppose.
I started cleaning carpets with a prochem steameasy l400 single vac 70psi intank heater
many years ago things have moved on a lot in that time.
The prochem powermax would also serve you well.
Think LOCATION, service ,repairs then machine Any machine with twin 3 stage vac motors with 135psi should be fine with upto 75ft of hose one thing for sure they all go wrong at some point so factor that in your choice.
I am sure other people Would mention different thats the great thing from a open forum.
off to bed now back to school for me in the morning cleaning carpets that is.
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Paul
Forgot to say once you buy your new machine have you got the folowing.
TREATMENT RISK COVER INSURANCE £200
CHEMICALS SELECTION £200
WEB SITE £200- £300
OTHER FORM OF ADVERTISING ???
Like i say dont no your situation so thought i would bring this up, is this in your 3k budget or have you all ready got this side sorted regards steve.