Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: kinder clean on October 25, 2009, 08:17:51 pm

Title: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: kinder clean on October 25, 2009, 08:17:51 pm

Supermarket all in one stain removers can set a stain -

I've often read this comment on here but I'm always reluctant to mention this to a customer as I don't have the facts to back it up.

The number of times I go to a job and they show me a stain and say ' I've tried getting it out with vanish'

For me to then reply ' I can't guarantee I will get the stain out as you may have set it ' I think to a custy this must sound like a cop out without some further explanation.

Can anyone give some technical explaniation as to how and why ?

Many thanks

Paul

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: Paul Simpson on October 25, 2009, 08:27:33 pm

Can't explain it technically but can give you an example of what I experienced.

Spray tan in young girls bedroom, covered approx. 6 x 4 ft, the mother tried a small section with Vanish approx. 12 x 6 inches with no luck before calling me.

I managed to get it all out bar (you guessed it) the section where she said, "oh thats where I tried it with vanish.  ???

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: Peter Sweeney on October 25, 2009, 08:40:35 pm

Its not so much setting as bleaching (for one example). Second is the fact that this type of product can create an unpenetrable barrier to the original stain hence the term it has been set.

Pete

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: Mike Halliday on October 25, 2009, 08:44:36 pm

I don't know the exact science behind this statement & its not something I ever say to customers but if I had to try and reason out why it might happen it would be some thing like....

a nylon carpet has its vacant dye sites filled with dye blockers, this stops acid stains penetrating into the fibre. If a DIY stain remover (SR) is used on the carpet then these dye blockers could be removed or damaged allowing a stain to become more ingrained into the fibre. This makes our job of removing the stain harder or impossible.

or

a wool carpet may have a protector applied (which stops any staining), but again if a DIY S/R  is used (like above with the nylon carpet) the protector can be removed and the stain become more permanent

these reasons are the same but also you need to look at how a stain is altered by a DIY S/R perhaps its viscosity is lowered allowing it to penetrate deeper, or the physical action of scrubbing the stain makes it more permanent

these are my thoughts on why :)

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus) on October 25, 2009, 08:47:27 pm

I usually find that people that use it, usually do so in a panic - use too much, don't blot it out effectively but rub the stain and enevitably bleach the carpet. Should be outlawed - instead some vanish products are actually woolsafe !


Steve

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: Mike Halliday on October 25, 2009, 08:56:31 pm

the marvel that is wikipedia ;) ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stain_removal

 setting stains is mentioned and an interesting bit at the bottom about hair dye

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: Doug Holloway on October 26, 2009, 07:56:33 am

Hi Guys,

Setting of stains can certainly occur with heat, rinsing blood with cold water is an example of this.

Partial dissolution of the stain with cleaning products, which then make them more fluid, often with agitation, rubbing etc will allow the stain to bond much more effectively and consequently be more difficult to remove, lily pollen isn example of this.

There is also the pH issue where some stains are more difficult to remove if the pH has been made more alkaline, red wine removal is an example here.

Cheers

Doug

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: JandS on October 26, 2009, 11:05:53 am

Paul Simpson

What you use to get spray tan out.
Have had problems before with fake tan, but most people
seem to accept that I won't be able to remove it anyway
just want the rest of the carpet clean.

John

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: derek west on October 26, 2009, 02:08:07 pm

i personally think its just an excuse if it doesn't come out. bloody good one mind.
heat! yes i can understand heat setting some things like spices and dyes. due to heat setting dyes etc.....

vanish! naaaaaaaaaaa, surely not. unless you rub hard enough to create heat. (see above for heat theory)

does it make the stain worse, yeah if it bleaches the carpet around the stain, but fixing the stain!, hmmmmmmm, i'm very sceptical.
derek

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: Buster Ingram on October 26, 2009, 03:52:00 pm

The PH of any chemical will have an effect on setting a stain; usually I go at a stain with an acid rinse first.
Once I have determined the ph content then I carry on with another chemical to suite the stain.
Failing that out comes the old faithful Stanley Knife stain gone!

Title: Re: Setting a stain with vanish / 2001 etc.... true or false ?
Post by: Paul Simpson on October 26, 2009, 04:42:46 pm

"Paul Simpson - What you use to get spray tan out.
Have had problems before with fake tan, but most people seem to accept that I won't be able to remove it anyway just want the rest of the carpet clean"



On that occasion a heavy dilution of microsplitters seemed to do the job.
Think she said it was washable spray tan.
But also had some success with coffee stain remover (long dwell time) on a seperate spray tan stain.