Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jonah on March 20, 2008, 10:06:17 pm
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Have been building up business for last few months , but the hardest part for me is explaining why the former wc has stopped coming ! I have a good idea really when they explain what he charged ! I am almost double and dont want to cast aspersions on his character ! I find myself saying sorry for him even though I dont know him . How do you explain why he hasnt been back for a while ?
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When they say what prices he did it for, just say, that's probably why he isn't coming anymore. That's what I do, then explain that costs go up, and they probably never have increased their prices, all of the sudden it isn't doable anymore. :)
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Good point , Used thats why he isnt coming anymore , but it takes a super salesman to get the job for twice the price ! Got 25 but am waiting for him to resurface LOL
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Hm, a friendly smile and a trustworthy face comes a long way I suppose. I think image has got a lot to do with it aswell, and confidence. If you are comfortable with a good price, people can see that from your bodylanguage aswell. If you add the leather folder, and looking pro, that helps aswell I think.
PDA as a calculator, they can't see it's just a calc hehe, they think oh that must be the way to price a house properly or something.
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I wonder if age and appearance have a lot to do with it. Teenager with hoodie and baseball cap or middle aged man with friendly face? Would youngsters have a hard time starting out?
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Have been building up business for last few months , but the hardest part for me is explaining why the former wc has stopped coming ! I have a good idea really when they explain what he charged ! I am almost double and dont want to cast aspersions on his character ! I find myself saying sorry for him even though I dont know him . How do you explain why he hasnt been back for a while ?
When i come across this, usually the first thing I say is "ah
that's a shame, its such a good area! what is the business name?Usually they don't know and go on to say that have no way of contacting him either.......already you have 2 good selling points there!
Then do your price........if you get the gasp of "that's a lot more than what he was charging"...then you can come in with, "I really suspect that that is why the other chap has stopped coming round as he didn't like to increase the price. My prices are competitive with other wc businesses operating in the area" ;D
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I wonder if age and appearance have a lot to do with it. Teenager with hoodie and baseball cap or middle aged man with friendly face? Would youngsters have a hard time starting out?
if we reverse that a teenager smartly dressed and a middle aged man in hoody and baseball cap the latter would put anyone on edge.
It is harder if you are younger but you just have to sell yourself, I did door to door canvassing when I was about 17/18 (I looked about 15) I did very well because i DID LIKE MOST CANVASSERS DO (of any age), be polite was presentable with a freindly smile, being good at selling helps a great deal.
Dishing another window cleaner only makes the person doing it look bad IMO
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DJW,
Age doesn't make the slightest diffrence. Its all down to the individual and how one portrays his company, simple as that.
Pro
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the hardest part for me is explaining why the former wc has stopped coming !
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That's nothing to do with you. If you knock and they ask "Where's the other bloke?" just say: "I really don't know - I'm nothing to do with him, I'm just expanding my operation into this area." If you start trying to give reasons why he hasn't been around, and then he hears about it, you could find he gets annoyed with you - he might be thinking of coming back. If you deny all knowledge of him and present yourself as a new service in the area, you couldn't then be accused of "poaching".
It's up to the custy to tell you that their other window cleaner hasn't been around, not up to you to tell them.
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I wonder if age and appearance have a lot to do with it. Teenager with hoodie and baseball cap or middle aged man with friendly face? Would youngsters have a hard time starting out?
Absolutely no question of that.
I have my hair trendy, wear young clothes and get turned down on a house for £20.
Ian Giles or Tosh turn up looking older and get the same place for £30+
If you look young people don't take you as a serious business.
I'm 34, but I get customers calling me "kiddo" or "young man", or the worst "There's a good boy" >:(
You'll never get top prices when that's what people think of you.
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Squeaky,
You are so off the mark its untrue. If you think that way in business, it will get you no were.
There are many types of shiner's, we all do the same which is clean glass. However its all about what sort of shiner you want to be. If you dont have the acumen or business skills to get good jobs at top rates you simply wont get them.
I'm 22 and have some very exlusive work in all sectors of the industry.
Pro
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Yes Propole is 22 but looks 12 !!! and he still gets good work, The only trouble is he gets paid in sweets
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;D ;D
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David ;D
I dont eat sweets know more as my dentist gave me some good advice once ;)
I have watched recently your posts mate, and been impressed with your attituide towards expansion. I too know the two things that drive business's foward are insight into implementation and expansion through good marketing and PR.
This year is going to be my best year in business, I have built an exellent reputation for supplying the highest level of service and have a prized and established commercial round which some here could only dream of having.
If you want swap some invoices mate we can see who get sweets ;D
Alex
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It's more about location really.
If you are doing well in a prosperous part of the UK eg. North London, Central London, The South West :o
- well you should be! because that's where all the money is.
But if you're doing quite well and you're in a less than average property value location, then you can say you are smart
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Squeaky,
You are so off the mark its untrue. If you think that way in business, it will get you no were.
There are many types of shiner's, we all do the same which is clean glass. However its all about what sort of shiner you want to be. If you dont have the acumen or business skills to get good jobs at top rates you simply wont get them.
I'm 22 and have some very exlusive work in all sectors of the industry.
Pro
Well lucky you, but I'm afraid in this case it's true.
My competitors around here have no more in the way of acumen and business skills than me, they're just older so they're taken more seriously.
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PJ
Come to Cornwall and see if you can spot where the money is ?
I have to look far and wide for the big jobs
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Very true PJ,
However its about presentation and good marketing to get into the big stuff. I'm not talking shop fronts and alike I'm talking work that takes a team days to complete. or specialist access maybe hundreds of feet high.
It amazes me how many on here think that there bigger than they are or all they need is a pair of shinny shoes and a smile. Some even think that because there a seasoned shiner of 20+ years that they are an elite.
There are some very clever buisnessmen here and many many dreamers.
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PJ
Come to Cornwall and see if you can spot where the money is ?
I have to look far and wide for the big jobs
No discredit to you Dave, I've seen your progress and hard work. But the property values just 2 miles from you are phenomenal compared to other areas, and a lot of them are second homes/holiday homes.
Who wants to holiday in Manchester?
There are some very clever buisnessmen here and many many dreamers.
This is very true too
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Squeaky,
You are so off the mark its untrue. If you think that way in business, it will get you no were.
There are many types of shiner's, we all do the same which is clean glass. However its all about what sort of shiner you want to be. If you don't have the acumen or business skills to get good jobs at top rates you simply wont get them.
I'm 22 and have some very exlusive work in all sectors of the industry.
Pro
Well lucky you, but I'm afraid in this case it's true.
My competitors around here have no more in the way of acumen and business skills than me, they're just older so they're taken more seriously.
Sigh!
Roger just doesn't get it does he?
I started Window cleaning when I was in my mid twenties, within 6 months I had someone working for me, another 18 months later I had 2 working for me, at one point I had 4 people working for me and all before I was Roger's age.
Your age has absolutely nothing to do it, if Roger saw Propole in the flesh he'd probably hold his hand and ask him if he'd lost his mummy? ;D
Propole presents himself professionally in business, and I'll bet if he decided to move to Chepstow and start afresh, within 6 months he'd be earning more than squeaky.
Squeaks has just recently picked up a few accounts, with any luck the ball is now going to start to roll in his favour, but until now we have all heard how he has lost account after account, how he never picks up new work and so on, yet no one else in this or any other area has the level of bad luck that Squeaks has had.
Unfortunately Roger won't accept any blame or see that he is doing anything wrong.
It's because of his age.
It's because of water fed pole.
There just isn't any work about.
And so on.
His unconscious body language lets him down, he doesn't exude confidence in WFP for a start, he sees a window done trad, all dry and polished and perfect as the ideal.
He sees WFP as wet and messy and too hit and miss to be as good as trad.
He has mentioned these things many times in different threads and if he believes this then his body language is going to show it, it's the same with pricing, he'll feel guilty putting in a big price, will try and justify to the customer, all these things add up and show in his demeanour.
As for the old window cleaner not turning up for months, well you don't have to diss them as such, but if your own price is way, way higher than theirs it's fairly obvious the old window cleaner was just too cheap to make it worthwhile coming back :-\
Ian
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I wonder if age and appearance have a lot to do with it. Teenager with hoodie and baseball cap or middle aged man with friendly face? Would youngsters have a hard time starting out?
Absolutely no question of that.
I have my hair trendy, wear young clothes and get turned down on a house for £20.
Ian Giles or Tosh turn up looking older and get the same place for £30+
If you look young people don't take you as a serious business.
I'm 34, but I get customers calling me "kiddo" or "young man", or the worst "There's a good boy" >:(
You'll never get top prices when that's what people think of you.
Start worrying when they give you a packet of sweets for cleaning their windows :)
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Very true PJ,
However its about presentation and good marketing to get into the big stuff. I'm not talking shop fronts and alike I'm talking work that takes a team days to complete. or specialist access maybe hundreds of feet high.
It amazes me how many on here think that there bigger than they are or all they need is a pair of shinny shoes and a smile. Some even think that because there a seasoned shiner of 20+ years that they are an elite.
There are some very clever buisnessmen here and many many dreamers.
Yes I've noticed that too. It's important to know ones limitations without feeling cramped by them. However, I would say that it's necessary to have the dream BEFORE it can be turned into reality. Maybe some of the dreamers are just going through the phase they need to before making the dream real whereas others are not aware of their limitations. I know my own limitations. I'm capable of learning business skills etc. Where I fall down is stress management. No point having an empire if it keeps me awake at night.
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Your age has absolutely nothing to do it, if Roger saw Propole in the flesh he'd probably hold his hand and ask him if he'd lost his mummy? ;D
Propole presents himself professionally in business, and I'll bet if he decided to move to Chepstow and start afresh, within 6 months he'd be earning more than squeaky.
Sorry, rubbish.
No he wouldn't, he'd struggle too, and I'll tell you why...
People in this area are stuck up ignorant people who think they're posh, and look down their nose at young people. >:(
I've never lived somewhere with such disillusioned and rude people.
There's nothing "posh" about living around here, but they take big wage cuts to have a Range Rover or 5-series and think they're better than you. ::)
I get no problem in council estates, but I hate working in them.
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Oh squeaky, squeaky, squeaky ...
Ian is right - you are so incredibly negative it comes across in many of your posts. No wonder you "can't" achieve like many even younger chaps do; if you tell yourself you can't, you won't.
34 isn't very young (a lot younger than me tho' ;D) - it's the perfect age for w/cleaning - a bit of experience, a chance to have filled out a bit and to be at the peak of strength and stamina.
Round here I know of a 28 yr old, a 25 yr old as well as older fellas, newly married into wfp and "going for it" they earn better daily rates than I do in the same area too. In fact it was a then 23 yr old who showed me wfp in the first place.
I don't mind learning from anyone - be they 17 or 70 - if it works I'll try it.
Go for it Rog, you can do it.
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Your age has absolutely nothing to do it, if Roger saw Propole in the flesh he'd probably hold his hand and ask him if he'd lost his mummy? ;D
Propole presents himself professionally in business, and I'll bet if he decided to move to Chepstow and start afresh, within 6 months he'd be earning more than squeaky.
Sorry, rubbish.
No he wouldn't, he'd struggle too, and I'll tell you why...
People in this area are stuck up ignorant people who think they're posh, and look down their nose at young people. >:(
I've never lived somewhere with such disillusioned and rude people.
There's nothing "posh" about living around here, but they take big wage cuts to have a Range Rover or 5-series and think they're better than you. ::)
I get no problem in council estates, but I hate working in them.
Another good excuse squeeky.
Mark
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Your age has absolutely nothing to do it, if Roger saw Propole in the flesh he'd probably hold his hand and ask him if he'd lost his mummy? ;D
Propole presents himself professionally in business, and I'll bet if he decided to move to Chepstow and start afresh, within 6 months he'd be earning more than squeaky.
Sorry, rubbish.
No he wouldn't, he'd struggle too, and I'll tell you why...
People in this area are stuck up ignorant people who think they're posh, and look down their nose at young people. >:(
I've never lived somewhere with such disillusioned and rude people.
There's nothing "posh" about living around here, but they take big wage cuts to have a Range Rover or 5-series and think they're better than you. ::)
I get no problem in council estates, but I hate working in them.
Another good excuse squeeky.
Mark
Excuse for what? ???
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Your age has absolutely nothing to do it, if Roger saw Propole in the flesh he'd probably hold his hand and ask him if he'd lost his mummy? ;D
Propole presents himself professionally in business, and I'll bet if he decided to move to Chepstow and start afresh, within 6 months he'd be earning more than squeaky.
Sorry, rubbish.
No he wouldn't, he'd struggle too, and I'll tell you why...
People in this area are stuck up ignorant people who think they're posh, and look down their nose at young people. >:(
I've never lived somewhere with such disillusioned and rude people.
There's nothing "posh" about living around here, but they take big wage cuts to have a Range Rover or 5-series and think they're better than you. ::)
I get no problem in council estates, but I hate working in them.
I have never found any problem with the people of this area,they are no more stuck up than people in any other parts of the country, those that are are usually in the minority.
And you are wrong about Propole too, he is young - and looks it - but he has done very well for himself and he would have no problem building a business in this area, as Malc says, your negatively holds you back, you look for problems and not solutions.
If you really do want to succeed then you need to look within, not without, you have to learn to change your mindset dude.
Ian
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I wonder if age and appearance have a lot to do with it. Teenager with hoodie and baseball cap or middle aged man with friendly face? Would youngsters have a hard time starting out?
Absolutely no question of that.
I have my hair trendy, wear young clothes and get turned down on a house for £20.
Ian Giles or Tosh turn up looking older and get the same place for £30+
If you look young people don't take you as a serious business.
I'm 34, but I get customers calling me "kiddo" or "young man", or the worst "There's a good boy" >:(
You'll never get top prices when that's what people think of you.
I am not getting probs with my age I am 31 ;)
and dont look old.
if they call me a kid so be it I have three of my own.
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Your age has absolutely nothing to do it, if Roger saw Propole in the flesh he'd probably hold his hand and ask him if he'd lost his mummy? ;D
Propole presents himself professionally in business, and I'll bet if he decided to move to Chepstow and start afresh, within 6 months he'd be earning more than squeaky.
Sorry, rubbish.
No he wouldn't, he'd struggle too, and I'll tell you why...
People in this area are stuck up ignorant people who think they're posh, and look down their nose at young people. >:(
I've never lived somewhere with such disillusioned and rude people.
There's nothing "posh" about living around here, but they take big wage cuts to have a Range Rover or 5-series and think they're better than you. ::)
I get no problem in council estates, but I hate working in them.
Another good excuse squeeky.
Mark
Excuse for what? ???
As to why he couldnt build up a good business in your area, its the people according to you.
But other cleaners from the same area you work tell a different story. They cant ALL be wrong can they??
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My competitors around here have no more in the way of acumen and business skills than me, they're just older so they're taken more seriously.
Squeeky I think you are misstaken. I think you use age as another excuse.
Mark
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in a nut shell........ you get out what you put in .....or "work smart not hard"
set realistic goals......be positive.... and if something works ...stick with it.....
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Isn't it supposed to be dissing?
Dishing???? ;D
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Whats dish post about
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Going back to the original post. The old window cleaner may have stopped turning up because the customer is one of the ' not today types ' and got fed up with them as opposed to not turning up because the money was not great. Time will tell... Over the years I have picked up lots of these type of customers and in time you realise exactly why the other guy stopped turning up
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Going back to the original post. The old window cleaner may have stopped turning up because the customer is one of the ' not today types ' and got fed up with them as opposed to not turning up because the money was not great. Time will tell... Over the years I have picked up lots of these type of customers and in time you realise exactly why the other guy stopped turning up
I agree with that comment totally. If you quote double the 'old' w/c the customer's face says it all. If the custie is 'irregular' or a 'bad payer' or a 'FF' you'll soon find out.
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Whats dish post about
Probably means Ditching
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Your age has absolutely nothing to do it, if Roger saw Propole in the flesh he'd probably hold his hand and ask him if he'd lost his mummy? ;D
Propole presents himself professionally in business, and I'll bet if he decided to move to Chepstow and start afresh, within 6 months he'd be earning more than squeaky.
Sorry, rubbish.
No he wouldn't, he'd struggle too, and I'll tell you why...
People in this area are stuck up ignorant people who think they're posh, and look down their nose at young people. >:(
I've never lived somewhere with such disillusioned and rude people.
There's nothing "posh" about living around here, but they take big wage cuts to have a Range Rover or 5-series and think they're better than you. ::)
I get no problem in council estates, but I hate working in them.
there's a good boy. ;D
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:-[
;D
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looks like its open season on squeaky??
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Blimey, started something there, i was only commenting on the domestic scene in my area. I wondered if it was difficult to pick up work because many householders are so scared of the whole youth culture that's about today. A couple of my customers were broken in to and the windowcleaner automatically became the first suspect. I think trustworthiness becomes an important issue.
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Blimey, started something there, i was only commenting on the domestic scene in my area. I wondered if it was difficult to pick up work because many householders are so scared of the whole youth culture that's about today. A couple of my customers were broken in to and the windowcleaner automatically became the first suspect. I think trustworthiness becomes an important issue.
one of my custys
got broken into and she asked me if the police had been to see me ?
i said no why ? she seemed to think i was the prime suspect.
i walked away in disgust and never went back, never even asked for payment
i had been cleaning her windows for 16 years
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Blimey, started something there, i was only commenting on the domestic scene in my area. I wondered if it was difficult to pick up work because many householders are so scared of the whole youth culture that's about today. A couple of my customers were broken in to and the windowcleaner automatically became the first suspect. I think trustworthiness becomes an important issue.
Of course image is important, customers must trust you and the service you provide, unfortunately people make assumptions based on appearance, you may be the loveliest man to walk planet earth but if you have love hate tattooed on your knuckles people will make assumptions as to your character.
If groups of youths hang about the area at night, if you dress similar to them then the customer assumes you are the same, unfair but unfortunately true.
If you are nervous on the door the customer will pick up on it, and they will become nervous/uneasy too. You must have had this same experience yourself, you didnt buy because something wasnt quite right, and usually you just cant put your finger on it.
Customers need to buy you before they buy your service.
Think like your potential customers think, what would be important for them to use your service?
Mark
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I'm not trying to jump on the band wagon but over the last few months I have noticed a strong negative attitude from young squeaky. If it does come across in his body language then that would explain his run of bad luck customer wise. As regarding the area where you live I think you get it across the country. The so called posh, snobby folks dont all live in one part of the Uk, they are splashed about everywhere. Most w/c ers have some on there round. I have a few. But its how you put yourself across. I'm 31 and there are several older shiners in my area. I am the only WFP er in my town so that was hard to get across to people but I have managed it and I'm sure it would have been alot harder if I was all doom and gloom and not confident with it. Plus it helps that I'm georgous. ;D
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I'm sure squeaky is being realistic rather than negative. We all i suspect have had customers like squeaky, but we have to be firm with them about how we work or they will take the pee.
As tosh mentioned on this thread:
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=50711.0
squeaky is too nice and prepared to go the extra mile for a customer when it isn't neccesary.
It winds me up when a customer wants me to clean windows and then expects me to do it their way. Constantly expecting that little bit more to be done that wasn't arraanged when quoting.
It is better to drop customers in my opinion rather than try to placate them further by doing extra work outside of the agreement. Unless a new price can be agreed on. None of us can relly afford to drop customers but they have a negative effect on how we work if allowed.
Squeaky, you need to be more ruthless mate. Don't be told, be asked and then agree if it's beneficial to you. Otherwise, explain how you work and let them take it or leave it.
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Poor Squeak only has to pop his head over the parapet of "clean it up forum" and he gets shot to pieces. The slightest negativity and you'd think he had comitted a crime! I enjoy his posts, some are tongue in cheek some very honest good luck Rog, we're not all perfect. ;D
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He enjoys the attention.
No one's had a go at him since he gave up fighting for his old ladder ;D
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Biggest problem was , he bought Ians Cast offs, lets face it what would you sell first, whingers, moaners, headmistress types, problem houses , horrible areas. Not a good start for a window cleaner.
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Some good replies, thanks
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Biggest problem was , he bought Ians Cast offs, lets face it what would you sell first, whingers, moaners, headmistress types, problem houses , horrible areas. Not a good start for a window cleaner.
Hey! :o He had just about my entire domestic round off me! Good accounts and bad accounts! Mostly good work too, but in all areas you have the odd account you hate.
Retrospectively some of the work was underpriced, but it wasn't until I started using the forum that I realised it.
But he hasn't really added to it much, I mean, he has, but nothing like as much as he should have done, some of the areas are really good, and in truth he should now be overflowing with work.
Prior to WFP I'd really wound down my work, was refusing all inquiries, Only worked about 2 and a half days a week, was on the point of packing it all in.
And now without any canvassing whatsoever I'm so full up I really struggle to get around on time.
Ian