Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: TelegraphHack on May 12, 2004, 07:36:23 pm
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Hi. I'm a journalist at the Daily Telegraph. I'm trying to check out a story which suggests people are leaving
"professional" jobs in the City, banking, whatever, to set up as window cleaners because apparently it is not too difficult to earn more than £60k in the trade in London..
This may be someone exaggerating to sell a story, i don't know..
Can anyone give me examples of people who have given up supposedly prestigious jobs to become window cleaners?
I can be contacted on 020 7538 6068 or at nic.fleming@telegraph.co.uk
Cheers,
Nic Fleming
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;)Hi Guys I would just like to say I have spoke to Nic this is not a joke or a prank,he is for real ;) this all come by the Federation office,your help would be most greatfull
Terry
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a chance to get your name in the paper maybe if nothing else
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60K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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60 K
thats a fair amount, i dont earn even close to it
BUT
im not in london, so p.haps the people from the smoke might be earning that :(
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I'm in London and Im not earning that.
However, some people work it out like this.
Say £10 per house, thats £30-40 per hour which in an ideal world works out to £xxx per day and £xxxper year.
The truth is that in the real world it does not happen in that way.
Thousands of professionals have lost their jobs in London because of masive changes in the City and no doubt some of them have ended up cleaning windows.
Probably to save face and keep their self respect they are telling tales of vast earnings and saying things like "I wish I had done it years ago old chap"
But its rubbish
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so what is a more realistic rough annual salary in London?
And do you know anyone who has left a job in the City/banking to window clean?
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If they muck the fire service around any more you'll have lots of firefigters cleaning windows full time!! Me for one!
Riz
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£60k is quite possible, especially if you had a few people working for you.
Assuming that:
a) You had mainly commercial work
b) You worked even if it rained
c) You used WFP
d) You lived in London
e) You were very good (had high prices)
The problem I see here is that a newspaper article about how well paid window cleaners are, and what a great job it is, might well make a good newspaper article. But will it do our industry any good?
Won't that encourage even more so the cowboyism that already plagues the window-cleaning industry?
I can't see many bankers or stock brokers resigning from their London jobs to windowclean on the strength of a newspaper article, but I could imagine Joe Dole thinking "here is a way I can make a few easy quid - Look! window cleaners make a fortune! Anybody can do that job"
However, maybe such an article may help to raise the status of the window cleaner, in which case it would be a good thing.
-Philip
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any chance you can give me a phone number so we can discuss it?
my email is nic.fleming@telegraph.co.uk
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A PM has been sent.
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I dont live in london either but it is possible to earn that sort of money not per year per month.
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Posted by: easycleanwindows Posted on: Today at 18:44
I dont live in london either but it is possible to earn that sort of money not per year per month.
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Nick,
If you are interested in the window cleaning Industry then there is more important issue here? i.e. serious injuries and deaths involving ladders and the soon to be implemented European Directive on work at heights? And how the industry is adapting new methods of cleaning windows i.e WFP, not only does us window cleaners have to play apart but also householders, workplaces, Building owners, designers. I was recently ask by ARMA to place an article in there quarterly newsletter (ARMA Quarter Day) and would be happy to help in any way.
Andy
Dorset
Fed member
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Thats true, the traditional window cleaner with his ladder and bucket will soon be a thing of the past. You have a story there if you want it.
And all down to another of those hated European Directives.
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Vince
Its all down to "The Industrial Revolution" Window cleaning with WFP. Other industries went through this two hundred years ago with looms and seed drills.
Hey were catching up ;D
3 x More work completed in the same time = 3 x more money in window cleaners pockets. Whats the problem in that?
To earn £60,000 a year you need to clean one window @£1.00 every two minutes for eight hours a day
easy stuff
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It is easily possible to turnover 60,000 with the right people and contacts in a month
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.
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Totally agree £60k is a target that can be easily reached if you plan and charge the correct amount per home. Ones that will never achive this kind of figure are the ones that clean house for £3 ago. Charge a fair price for a top quality job your be a winner all the way.
I would say within 2 years time i will earn over £100k a year or even more. Thats not just cleaning windows thou.
Good luck
Justin
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In Justins case you need to clean 1 window for £5.00 every 10 minutes ;D
way ya go Justin
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Its that north south devide again, you cant charge the same in the north as you can in the south
John
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I will not earn that just on windows. I do alot of other work.
Conservatories ( Clean 4 in one day started at 10am i was back home watching TV at 2.30pm with £385 ) Fasica , Pressure washing , Yachts. Thats why i will earn that kind of money in 2 years time. But alot will come from windows. Also helps if you have some great equipment that can adatep to changes. ;) Thank you Ominpole :)
Ill be like that chap i liked the company so much i brought it :-)
Justin
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Some of the figures I have seen about earnings on this forum are a joke.If people are earning this kind of money why are they still driving around in £600-£700 vans which they have had for a couple of weeks? Why are they carrying 6-10 plastic cans of water? £100,000 over 365 days = £274 per day=£34 per. hr. EVERY DAY.
£100,000 over a 5 day week is £377 per. day, not including wet days,bank holidays,sick days, annual holidays, lazy days. This does not include traveling time.What kind of service are you giving your customers? This is meant to be a serious forum for professionals.Get real!
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Scotty
I noticed you mention lazy days, wet days, sick days - I didnt know what those were when I was cleaning windows.
Profesional means apart from cleaning the windows you carry out Risk assesments, Produce method statements, Pay for training courses such as IPAF and First Aid- wear the correct PPE- Know exactly how to safely takle any window cleaning task that may present itself -
Customers pay highly for Window Cleaners that are profesional!
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Old Master. Like I said before, with all these courses & paperwork & working time, people have got to sleep & have a social life as well!
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Well I give a Professional service and get Professional money you get loyalty and lots of recommendations ;D
andy
dorset
fed member
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Scotty if you read my posts correctly i have only just started some 3 months ago and yes i am earning very well at the moment. Your also see that i will earn that in 2 years time this is the goal i have set myself and i will get there via hard work and charging the correct price per job. Also the Van i have yes it cost £600 it makes me stand out even more and has been a real bouns instead of driving around in a old banger will ladders on the roof i look an professional. There is a lot of window cleaners i know on these forums that are earning over £60 - £70k per year now so why cant i earn £100k with the extra services i provide.
Yep Old Master and Poleman are right. If you carry out the job right with the correct tools and look pro and make a bloody good job then your earn alot of money.
I will earn that kind of money in 2 years time once i get a full load some of my jobs now pay over £80 per hr so £34 is going to be a brezze.
What you need to do scotty is stop charging £4 per house, stop wearing jeans and a ripped tshirt take out the earrings and have a shave. Get a Uniform look smart then start charging £12 plus per house then your realsie your earning protental. Also like i have said its not just about windows open your eyes to the bigger picture.
Good luck
Justin
Ps Oh yeah forgot to say also i have a group of lads in my area telling alot of my customers they will clean there widows 1/2 the price i do it. They have no uniform and have basic equipment. Guess what? All my customers have said no thank you, and i have not lost one of them. I even have alot from an other local window cleaner and i charge nearly double what he does but alot are willing to pay me that amount for a professional job and thats what they get.
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100 K a year
thats 2 K a week ??? ???
you havent taken into account the rainy days and the days off, holidays etc
so we are talking more likely 2 1/2 K a week
justin i wish you well, as you must be doing something right
you are in a good position now, being 1 of the few in your area (you might be the only 1, i dont know) BUT what happens when they all get the WFP setup, you will not get some much work come through
i know its good to aim high, but the higher you aim, the more likely you will be disappointed
good luck though ;) and i mean that
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Those whom dare wins. PMA PMA thats why alot of you will never get there.
Justin
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Why should profesional window cleaners earn less than plumbers, mechanics or any other tradesmen?
It is the value you put on yourselves that determines what you earn.
When I price contracts for large organisations I go in at the same rate that a Electrician, Plumber, Air conditioning Engineer or indeed any other trade would charge. The client knows a buisness has overheads that need to be covered. If we didnt charge high rates we wouldnt get the contract as the client would think we were not capable of carrying out the work.
When I buy stationary, fuel or buisness equipment the supplier doesnt think oh they are a window cleaning company Ill charge them less than other tradesmen.
My overheads are no less than other trades.
The local garage charges us over £50.00 an hour for the services of a mechanic. Legal advice for a buisness matter starts at about £250.00 an hour.
Lets all put a real value on window cleaning.
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Why should profesional window cleaners earn less than plumbers, mechanics or any other tradesmen?
It is the value you put on yourselves that determines what you earn.
When I price contracts for large organisations I go in at the same rate that a Electrician, Plumber, Air conditioning Engineer or indeed any other trade would charge. The client knows a buisness has overheads that need to be covered. If we didnt charge high rates we wouldnt get the contract as the client would think we were not capable of carrying out the work.
When I buy stationary, fuel or buisness equipment the supplier doesnt think oh they are a window cleaning company Ill charge them less than other tradesmen.
My overheads are no less than other trades.
The local garage charges us over £50.00 an hour for the services of a mechanic. Legal advice for a buisness matter starts at about £250.00 an hour.
Lets all put a real value on window cleaning.
i agree
BUT
i dont know ANY trademen / woman who earn 100 K a year, im from the building game (a carpenter) and i know loads in the building trade, and not 1 of them earn 100 K (infact day rates of 120 - 150 quid are about right)
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thatching can have a TURNOVER of 100k a year with the help of a young lad but is this what we are talking turnover not profit
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Hi Matt and Sean
The figure you are quoting is for a self employed chippy working on site probably subbing the work from another subcontractor who in turn is subbing that work for a main contractor.
The difference is your not a self employed subby you are running your own business and you choose who you work for and how much you charge them.
My window cleaning company is registered and Authorised as a main contractor with organisations like London Underground (although we are happy to sub work from other cleaning contractors at the right price and do this regulary - last week we cleaned the Coca Cola factory for another cleaning company).
Now if I price work for an organisation like L.U. I cannot be charging out at £150 or even £250 per man per 3 hour night shift, because I would loose money due to the amount of paperwork and the Health and Safety training required to work for an organisation like them or indeed any other major company or organisation eg. Universities, Airports, Police Authorities the list go's on and on of companies,organisations and people that need window cleaners.
Now I admit we do not get the same hourly rate from cleaning blocks of flats which is our bread and butter work but we treat them with the same profesionalism and expect in return to be able to clean them in the rain.
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I can imagine that with WFP it would be possible to earn a fairly large salary in the London area. I have just converted to WFP and it is starting to make a significant difference to the amount of work I can get through.
If I was pushy enough and was prepared to put in the effort, and if I was also prepared to work weekends, or Saturdays at least, I could probably earn close to 30k a year, which would be doubling my current income.
I am content to work as few hours and days as I can, I like my leisure time, if I can earn 20k I will be happy.
With the WFP I shall rarely be climbing ladders and risking me neck on a daily basis anymore, and the ability to earn my money will be easier now.
In London I would have thought it quite possible to earn double what I could potentially earn in my neck of the woods, but it would still take considerable effort to do so, or so I would imagine.
I do know of one firm local to myself that started using WFP only a year or two, they now have over 2000 domestic accounts and a great many large commercial ones, they have several large vans fully equipped with WFP, comply totally with all health and safety aspects and turn over vastly more than 60k a year.
I have to say I take my hat off to them, or would if I wore one! They are a true inspiration, if you have what it takes then you can really hit the heights, even with window cleaning.
But it is still a very physical job, a tough change of tack for someone who may have had a sedentary job for many years.
Ian
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Ian
I think your comments are very valid ;D
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well what ever the sum everyone is saying mr fleming here has sure set off a debate ;D
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well what ever the sum everyone is saying mr fleming here has sure set off a debate
Or an investigation. Just remember lads, it's easy for the Inland Revenue to monitor these boards, or anyone else for that matter. It may be up to you later down the line during a tax investigation to prove you are not earning 60k per year.
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I hate comments like that you label all honest window cleaners as tax dodgers, just cos a some people dont declare everything does not mean we all like that. I have owned two business now and find honestly is the best way, you never have to worry about an TAX inspection or nothing. Mind you if's worth taken out some insurance to cover this as it can run into Thosands of pounds in accountant fees if you have no insurance.
Justin
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I started cleaning windows in 1985, my first customer was my next door neighbour, I charged just £2.50. Within 12 months by business "The Window Man" was cleaning just over 2,000 houses per month in four local towns @ an average charge of just £3.00 per house thats £6K per month!
Eventually I moved into commercial window cleaning and at the height of that business then called "Over The Top" (because we became abseiling specialists) our annual turnover was £1million. Compared to some, that's still a small turnover but did enjoy a high profit margin not because we charged the earth, but because we charged sufficient to win the work and then worked in the most efficient way whilst maintaining the highest standards.
I started with absolutely nothing but you know, its not what you do, its how you do it! Its very easy to find excuses why you can't earn good money window cleaning, but the truth is its possible (North & South) and if you know how, its easy. Over the years I have come into contact with many high income window cleaners, some employ staff some do not. The one thing they have in common is a positive attitude and they've learned to work smarter not just harder.
All the information you need to be able to grow your business is available in a 1 day BWCA Marketing Course, that's if you can be bothered to pick the phone up and dial a freephone number!
Best regards
Craig Mawlam
Internal Verifier
BWCA C&G NVQ Centre
0800 146 133
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I hate comments like that you label all honest window cleaners as tax dodgers
I'm not labelling anyone Justin, just pointing out something some may overlook.
I have met many people of all trades over the years and I have often found that the people that brag about how much they are on probably aren't, or at least not every day. I have had a tax inspection in the past, they pick names by random, and estimate your tax. Try then telling your tax inspector that you aren't eaning what you may have carelessly said in an email.
I am not tarring everyone with the same brush or pointing the finger at anyone, just a friendly caution as to 'you never know who may be listening to ya'
Have a good season,
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;) I back that up what Martin just posted,I to have had Tax man on my back for the past 2 years,you do not want them ,take it from me :P they are evil little men
they are the gremlins of the human world,when they sit across the desk chuckling at you,and you want to pick them up, and kick them out the window,and they ask you petty things ,do you bet drink any sports ???
they have got no feelings for the real world,
evil suckers :P
if I get to be priminister TAX IS GONE FOR EVER
AND GORDON BLINKIN BROWN HE CAN GO AND ALL
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I opnce had the tax man make me go back 4 years, wasn't any fault of ours though, unknown to us we had a crooked accountant, he ended out doing time. He screwed us and landed us in hot water with the tax man to boot.
Afterwards we thought we had found a top notch accountant, meticulous, fussy, precise.
But his charge went up each year, bigger and bigger increases.
He also did the accounts for our hairdresser, she told us that she would just stuff all her reciepts and so on into a Tescos carrier bag and leave him to it.
My wife would submit ours almost completed for him.
As a window cleaner accounts are quite simple, few overheads and few materials.
He had only to fill out the tax form for us really.
With Louise (the hairdresser) he had to do everything, and only charged her £100 or so for his services.
We on the other hand were having to pay him around £400 >:( >:(
She is a bit of a babe, and I can only assume he fancied her, but the disparity in his charges and the work he had to carry out was outrageous!
have done my own tax since then using Which Tax Calc, and if I have a query I ring up the local tax office for guidance, have found them really good too.
The tax men aren't stupid, they know roughly what the average window cleaner will turn over in any particular area of the Country, and I have been told that when you try and fiddle your return by, say, overcooking your fuel receipts, they will know that if your turnover is £xxx and you are claiming £yyy in fuel costs, they will know that in relation to your turnover, what you are claiming doesn't ring true.
As I understand it, there can be several such indicators in a tax return that can give away a tax dodger and I would imagine that if you 'trip' enough alarms you will have them descend on you, making your life a misery :'( :'(
On that happy note I shall go 8)
Ian
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Just to repeat what has already been said.
You do not want to be the subject of a tax investigation.
They have the power to freeze your bank accounts and even sell your house out from under you and they don't need to even prove a thing. Once they start the onus is on you to prove you are innocent.
You would be better off dealing with the mafia or a gang of Hells Angels
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Hi all,
seems i instigated quite a heated debate.. thanks for your messages. After speaking to lots of people, i realised the original story was not really true, but have interviewed three of your colleagues and done a different story.. which, because of other commitments, will hopefully be printed on saturday.
Thanks again,
Nic
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i think we will all be buying it ;)
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the article will (almost certainly) run in monday's telegraph now due to lots of news happening late saturday..
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sorry, late friday..
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glad you said that i was scared that something was going to happen that onley you know about ;)
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well he did not say what the article was about ??? so looks like i`m going to have to buy the Telegraph for the first time.
andy
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Its the only paper I ever buy,
I cant be doing with all the tittle tattle rubbish in the others.
Neil
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The court cases on page 3 are the best ;D
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The window cleaners article is in today (Monday 24th May)
Maybe Nic would let us have the text.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/24/nprof24.xml
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Shame it doesnt mention Matt David uses an Omnipole system :-/