Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Adam P on May 11, 2024, 11:40:32 pm
-
looking to properly get into jet washing. been using a domestic machine for the odd job we get requested where standards aren't super important, but now i want to do it properly with real professional kit.
wondered what others on here would look to get with approx £4k (for equipment and chemicals only)
one of the machines i'm leaning towards getting is from equip2clean - Kiam GORILLA POWER® 2700PSI 25LPM 13HP Petrol Pressure Washer Honda GX390 Engine, but they also do a 3100PSI 21LPM.
there's a difference in price, but i'm a little lost as to why a lower PSI but higher LPM is more expensive and even why it's not just higher LPM = higher PSI?
anyone rate their machines?
what length hose is ideal?
i see BNQ so a BE whirlaway 20". is this size good for domestic sites and ok enough for commercial?
what list of chemicals should i hold as minimum?
thanks
-
If you want a professional set up I would speak to someone like Ben at Rutland pumps , he gives good honest advice won’t try and sell you something you don’t need or sell you high prices stuff unless that’s what you want . Honda are a reliable engine , we have had a couple over the years but now have Briggs and Stratton vanguard v twin , much better built ,quite, uses less fuel , and you don’t have to rev it hard for good power just over tickover will clean most things , 21 ltr per muinit and 250 bar will clean most things fast and one pass only with a fsc , if using a lance with turbo nozzle or vario nozzle again it’s very quick cleaning and rinsing , a wheely bin as a bouser would be needed.hose length depends what you will be doing but 50-100 meters should be fine . Smudger does a lot of pw ime sure he can give some advice
I would also suggest it’s not very likely you will get 25 lol from an 13 hp engine / pump as 13 hp wont run the bigger pumps , 21 lpm is the maximum from 13 hp on a good day .
-
Thanks for the reply.
This is the one I was on about, though they have variations of it.
Do you think that's not a realistic description from real world use?
https://equip2clean.co.uk/products/kiam-gorilla-power%C2%AE-3100psi-25lpm-13hp-petrol-pressure-washer-honda-gx390-engine?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=81eb74411&pr_rec_pid=8364713443570&pr_ref_pid=8364641681650&pr_seq=uniform
-
Thanks for the reply.
This is the one I was on about, though they have variations of it.
Do you think that's not a realistic description from real world use?
https://equip2clean.co.uk/products/kiam-gorilla-power%C2%AE-3100psi-25lpm-13hp-petrol-pressure-washer-honda-gx390-engine?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=81eb74411&pr_rec_pid=8364713443570&pr_ref_pid=8364641681650&pr_seq=uniform
From talking to Ben at Rutland and several other suppliers all have said the maximum you can get out of a 13 hp Honda is a maximum of 21 lpm ,
-
Splash won't be surprised to find I will disagree - you can get 25 Ltr. a min - depends on the gearing or belt ratio used, However feeding 25 Ltr a min may be problematic - big buffer tank - finding enough water to feed it.
Do you need spend 4K ? - when 1500 to 2K will get you every thing you need for the work you hope to get.
There is always an offset between power and flow - if you have light work but need to move crud (pig sheds) then flow is king
if its heavy staining but smaller areas power is more important
200 Bar x 21 Lts - is a good allrounder
-
Splash won't be surprised to find I will disagree - you can get 25 Ltr. a min - depends on the gearing or belt ratio used, However feeding 25 Ltr a min may be problematic - big buffer tank - finding enough water to feed it.
Do you need spend 4K ? - when 1500 to 2K will get you every thing you need for the work you hope to get.
There is always an offset between power and flow - if you have light work but need to move crud (pig sheds) then flow is king
if its heavy staining but smaller areas power is more important
200 Bar x 21 Lts - is a good allrounder
So what pump are you using to get theses figures , as Rutland and q washers and everyone I have spoken to say the Honda 13 hp engine doesn’t produce enough power to run pumps that will give 21 lpm , I have had a couple myself and measuring the flow it would give 17-19 lpm maximum .
I agree with the rest 👍
-
Interpump ws202 - bullet proof unlike the Mazzoni ones Ben sold me - both disintegrated and his engine build wasn't much better either.
my latest set of P/w's are G420
As you will be aware Q-washers advocate twin feed on there setup - this definitely drops the LPM as you get cavitation on one side due to the tight turn into the pump - filters can slow it down as well
-
Interpump ws202 - bullet proof unlike the Mazzoni ones Ben sold me - both disintegrated and his engine build wasn't much better either.
my latest set of P/w's are G420
As you will be aware Q-washers advocate twin feed on there setup - this definitely drops the LPM as you get cavitation on one side due to the tight turn into the pump - filters can slow it down as well
Ok that’s interesting have you actually measured the amount of water the pumps supplying as mine would only provide 17-19 lpm although it was sold as 21 . I have always found Rutland and Ben very good obviously we don’t do the amount of pw you do but never had any problems with kit from him , girls in the office are useless though 😂😂😂
-
of course - that and research coming from 30 + years in engineering ( altho I don't pay as much attention now )
Isn't that his wife ?
-
https://www.rutlandpumps.com/watertek-vanguard-16hp-mazzoni-gearbox-drive-22lpm-250-bar-wheelbarrow.html
Thinking to then go for the above machine. Are these rated good?
One thing that concerns me is when watching youtube videos, it's mentioned many times that it's good to buy local due to easily getting it fixed and parts. Is this really something I need to worry about? My carpet machine (airflex machines) has been back the manufacturer once in the 10 odd years I had it for a full service.
-
https://www.rutlandpumps.com/watertek-vanguard-16hp-mazzoni-gearbox-drive-22lpm-250-bar-wheelbarrow.html
Thinking to then go for the above machine. Are these rated good?
One thing that concerns me is when watching youtube videos, it's mentioned many times that it's good to buy local due to easily getting it fixed and parts. Is this really something I need to worry about? My carpet machine (airflex machines) has been back the manufacturer once in the 10 odd years I had it for a full service.
Yes that’s a good machine but they are heavy you will need a decent set of ramps to get it in and out of the van if working alone .
I deal with Rutland which is hundreds of miles away from me , never had to send anything back yet , just order spares and do most of the servicing myself.
-
Yes a good machine but I would worry about anything mazzoni long term - my experience is there stuff is temperamental at best
I do think it’s a bit of a cheek stating made in Britain - all the parts come from abroad 😆
Interpump- Honda and Loncin have been very reliable on all my setups (10 p/ws) so local is not a priority imo
-
Thanks guys.
This is another I'm considering, though there's also the exact same machine but 250 bar with 30 LPM, same price. Which would be better for driveway use? 300 bar but 25lpm, or 309 bar and 25lpm?
https://www.rutlandpumps.com/watertek-loncin-g700-25lpm-300-bar-pressure-washer.html
Does the above have the same gearbox? There is a lot less details mentioned on the site then for the machine I mentioned yesterday.
The one I mentioned before comes with 3 years warranty, this loncin one only 2 years. Is this a worry?
The site asks for Outlook fittings. Which would I want to select?
I've seen other machines mention that they have the start where once you turn it on, rhe water comes out the side to flush out any air. Is this standard for most machines?
Also another feature I've seen other machines mention about how when you're not shooting the water out, say you want to change attachments, the machine cycles the water to your buffer tank. This keeps the pump cool? Is this something that all machines pretty much have at this price point? If not, is that a problem?
-
Yes a good machine but I would worry about anything mazzoni long term - my experience is there stuff is temperamental at best
I do think it’s a bit of a cheek stating made in Britain - all the parts come from abroad 😆
Interpump- Honda and Loncin have been very reliable on all my setups (10 p/ws) so local is not a priority imo
Mazzoni pumps are not that great from friends that have had them , I have never had one by choice, but wondered if the gearbox would be ok as it’s not usually something that goes wrong with a pressure washer set up they are quite simple in design compared to a pump , we don’t use them everyday like you do its an add on for us .
-
Thanks guys.
This is another I'm considering, though there's also the exact same machine but 250 bar with 30 LPM, same price. Which would be better for driveway use? 300 bar but 25lpm, or 309 bar and 25lpm?
https://www.rutlandpumps.com/watertek-loncin-g700-25lpm-300-bar-pressure-washer.html
Does the above have the same gearbox? There is a lot less details mentioned on the site then for the machine I mentioned yesterday.
The one I mentioned before comes with 3 years warranty, this loncin one only 2 years. Is this a worry?
The site asks for Outlook fittings. Which would I want to select?
I've seen other machines mention that they have the start where once you turn it on, rhe water comes out the side to flush out any air. Is this standard for most machines?
Also another feature I've seen other machines mention about how when you're not shooting the water out, say you want to change attachments, the machine cycles the water to your buffer tank. This keeps the pump cool? Is this something that all machines pretty much have at this price point? If not, is that a problem?
30 ltr of water per muinit is a lot of water to supply to a machine and a lot of waist water to get rid of, we don’t do huge stuff like Darren does but have never found we needed more that 21 ltr that will clean most stuff
-
If you are spending that kind of money may as well get a GX630
https://jetmac.co.uk/shop/ols/products/honda-gx630-with-comet-30lt-pump-electric-start
although it seems a bit overkill for driveways, i paid 1300 for my 21lpm loncin dont see why i would need more
-
If you are spending that kind of money may as well get a GX630
https://jetmac.co.uk/shop/ols/products/honda-gx630-with-comet-30lt-pump-electric-start
although it seems a bit overkill for driveways, i paid 1300 for my 21lpm loncin dont see why i would need more
Do you know how much fuel they drink ?😂😂😂
-
After all these posts I still feel no closer to making a decision what to get. 3 different websites linked in this thread and each with no clear answer as to why that's definitely the one to go for. I feel lost.
I don't want to buy cheap now and in a years time find myself buying again because I feel the weakness of that machine, but then why waste money on going over kill. But then why not spend a couple hundred more on a slightly better machine, and all of a sudden it escapes to spending a thousand more, but that machine pump is bad, or the motor there's better out there.
Too dizzy
-
If you are spending that kind of money may as well get a GX630
https://jetmac.co.uk/shop/ols/products/honda-gx630-with-comet-30lt-pump-electric-start
although it seems a bit overkill for driveways, i paid 1300 for my 21lpm loncin dont see why i would need more
Do you know how much fuel they drink ?😂😂😂
The guys on a mission to blow 4k to get into pressure washing I doubt he cares .
-
OP - your not really listening - as Stoots said your itching to blow 4k regardless
Splash has already said 21 lpm is enough and he does a fair bit of work - I've never needed more than this either maybe if you get a contract on the rigs or something....
You can get a great set up for around 2k - and thats if you really want to have a fsc as well - I only use them on tarmac and concrete
which is about 5% of work that comes in.
You could spend that 4k and the machine sit there week in and week out - that monies gone where as 2k leaves you 2k for leaflets - advert - web page should you need it
-
I'm looking at £4k for everything, and happy to spend less.
Pressure washer machine, fsc, buffer, hoses, attachments, chemicals, x jet or some equivalent, brushes, buckets, it all adds up
-
Are you going to be putting into one of your 'Mayer' vans on the website, or a separate vehicle?
If using one of your existing vehicles what size tank are you getting because you won't get a large tank in one of those, on top of kit already in there, plus hoses and other pressure washing stuff.
You have been given great advice but what is the vehicle you're working from, what tank do you expect to get in there and what else in that vehicle is 'heavy' kit up against?
Overanalysing PSI against LPM is less important detail, bar pressure and lower flow rate will give you the same end product with less water, possibly.
21LPM is just right for domestic and small commercial but too big to run off a tap (shouldn't be using a direct feed anyway, unless you're getting a yellow Karcher) a buffer tank is required.
Not seen any of this mentioned.
There's probably 750 kilos of kit in the back of my van, then fuel and then water.
If you're taking the machine in and out of the van, by hand, on a ramp, storage for everything?
I tip up on site, doors are flung open, water fill hose (hydrant) attached, HP hose pulled to works and machine switched on, start working away, whether on the ground or elevated, cleaning cladding, whatever - the amount of times people have come up to me, at the back of the van and said, 'any jobs, that looks easy,I could do that'.
It looks easy because of nearly 2 decades of experience, because the set up is nearly perfect and because the kit gives me the best end result.
Clients expect to see dirty & then clean and if done properly it is always impressive, if done badly it looks worse.
The done properly doesn't happen overnight - the shiny machine will not give you the result, the user will.
This is not an easy add on,
Whatever machine you buy there's a bit more than the 'shiny' kit bit.
-
Re-reading this I'm not sure if it comes across as a bit heavy.
It is meant to be informative and to try and show anyone looking at this as an add on that it isn't just 'get a machine'.
I'm the extreme end of works on here, no domestic, no small commercial, all my jobs are hefty and days on end to finish but I had to get to where I am.
I'm certainly not saying that's better than anyone else and for a lot of reasons it isn't.
I've gone through the set ups and different machines and it can be over analysed, cost being the main factor and getting the best machine for the money.
I've only ever bought secondhand machines until the hotbox this year (there was a new Thor in there at one point a long time ago) and they've served me well.
I've done the analysing from a different perspective.
If your'e doing it the way I have or the new machine way you need to be good on the spanners or have service people that can put the machine right, when it goes wrong, because it will and that will be when you don't want it to.
Part of my RAMS shows the service history of the machine in use and because of the clients I have that is done around 6 monthly.
The two I've got are both diesel and less thirsty than petrol ones (if I don't turn them up to full flow), again - is this a consideration?
I've run them both against the Honda 13 HP 21 LPM and they are quieter , even with bigger engines - my works can be out of hours, can be in front of trading supermarkets, commercial premises but diesel are much more expensive and harder to get, certainly out of the 4K price range, unless it's a Hilta/Yanmar 15LPM, that can be picked up for a couple of grand but don't have the capability to get the job done.
Like this post, it can be overanalysed and then you start scratching your head.
Steve Knight has a machine for sale in the 'for sale section'. Steve's a carpet cleaner I believe and would have looked after it so maybe worth a message.
Whatever you decide, this can be a very lucrative add on or as people on here have done, made into a full time business.
There's a lot of dirty premises out there.
All the best.
-
Good post 👍
-
Ive only done a handfull of jobs after getting my machine a few weeks ago.
But what i would definitely recommend is get a van mounted machine.
It doesnt seem much but dragging than machine out with the wheelie bin and all the other gear to get setup and packaway easily adds 30 mins to the job. A van mount would be much easier and quicker for smaller jobs imo. I think i will van mount mine and then maybe get a smaller machine maybe second hand as backup/portbale option just in case i come across somewhere i cant reach. Machine is heavy and ramps can be a little slippy, i was close to dropping mine today.
Imagine just pulling up and just pluggin hose reel to your buffer tank in the van, pulling a reel out with lance on and away you go...
-
thanks again all for the replies.
one question i have is regarding the way everything connects. I understand quick release is the way to go, however seeing there's more than one type. i assume it's the midi quicck release most equipment uses? rather than the 'large quick release'?
regarding chemicals, it seems the basics required are hypo, surfactant, biocide, oil stain remover, rust remover. does this cover most requirements? do people tend to buy all these solutions from different suppliers or all from one place? with carpet cleaning it seems most suppliers do some sort of variety of every product required which makes it nice and easy. is that the same for jet washing solutions?
-
with regards to buffer tanks, is 120L a bit on the small side?
-
Yes 120 is far to small - your drawing at 21 litres per minute - if flow is poor you have as little as 6 minutes run time
most places seem to have reasonable flow of 15 but thats still a deficit of 7 litres a min which gives you 25 minutes maybe ? before your empty
Chemicals:
Hypo
TFR
Graffiti cleaner
Brick cleaning
Oil Stain Remover
oxalic acid
plus several other chemicals as you come across various works
I use different places as some products are better than others
-
thanks. ill go with the 240L tank in that case.
i see many peple recommend suttner nozzles. i have googled but struggled to find a difinitive 'this is a suttner nozzle'
eca cleaning appear to do them, linked below for instance, but there is no mention on this specific page of it being suttner, and then also, a huge variety of spray angles and nozzle sizes to select from. how would you know?
https://www.ecacleaning.co.uk/products/quick-release-high-pressure-nozzle-zinc-plated-mini-various-sizes?variant=44599583506645
-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186183609327?itmmeta=01HYNK7G0F0XEDSWTHQT5QHCTQ&hash=item2b59686bef:g:S0EAAOSwF0Flip6~&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8NV8TLHHVGshfTUazt8RLvS%2BONzQYfveTSZgyS%2Fak6g7cUxmTAJngNMiBtMjflg9ROfSeFRTelAS6gQVRgtpiScQgx7mD%2BOvndA7JzlE7S%2BEUnnLkXEwLPlM8vX%2BJtljgKCt56HT65K%2BgF2t5drxTyYSpyFNl6cJxcRvDw1p8ejN0wDNm%2FlVC63id%2FXCx4DebYKvqIvO7NXR0uxIBJ7TfRwT%2FrTrZBfjurw%2FmMJYLVtjMgGphs0kkf78rlr3XPgpGbDWJzifeMTsXJgZf2aumS%2FR1BHPbnTMABzSwRu976ygzzsjiuG%2FU4vhdjlKfNxRNQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7CAnrP1Yw
for standard 15 degree nozzle I use whatever make my local supplier has - turbo needs to be a good quality and they last
-
thanks but even that link it has 9 different option for the nozzle size. how would you know the one you're after for your machine?
i also see that the end is attached by being screwed on. do people buy attachments to make them quick release? is it midi or large quick release?
-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281147951739?itmmeta=01HYNMKQ8ZRZXEP2CVVBZQ4Y44&hash=item4175b94a7b:g:xW4AAOSws5FcrHtr&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0AyzyyvbUyFrP0nOq3Exf9neiP1Ntrjx1jaBNHBEl%2FZoN8COfNSjyToT0p97B7dXcy0IduXZxm6s4ws541TrpZqxX%2B3E02O4rOJHxh6576eFoTkjXjf5PtfqIDdLHtOkIX3vfqa%2Bcr7laKWrhMjCdUVSQf%2BPu%2BrEuhvzxt0lSmgqPCN6UdTZKPUg%2BMGgvnZtJInzkgRZHv9W%2FmfIczKNd%2BcMJdJJAJaIuw3NqHM%2F7TEx1%2BhK2gpiuwrNYAkXobgxTpf2zHUjRTfHd9v0sgZTvSg%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-r0zrT1Yw
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281147903336?itmmeta=01HYNMP8F0EAPG49P56SFNS1AG&hash=item4175b88d68:g:eJYAAOSwIq9crH-d&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABAIOUUPTOWjwhEu7lfrzg6ZUDPtX7aAiiIx6IuoHtFYEIsbiYvS3xUCTLI%2F5jOzsJCGrmCJtFLUpLuHyN1MrA3RMXHogrKdnAkt3nGJx6TtzMRzUuDVPhPLA5ULOKBXl57ADTWN6RrUx5owQIAeVMl933W%2B6Hm81dZ1pWPC9r5NVcR7JQd5vHDhTgjYzyB4sclvl2HyfFjp0c8kJJ%2F3tJ7EwOAXOdAkCf5Er78HkXMEQDFeUCT2EQF6aHyAAlvLySqs566rBK4ZGN5TJnf9FFtxJ763wiQeJFs8%2Fzw6tkpqAZk4eCE%2FCsoGc99Dbirh6rOCIGbDYlfm%2F8Bt%2BlHw9fwWo%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8iH2bT1Yw
Using these you can change nozzle on the lance - turbo to 15 degree - hi/low - foamer etc..
nozzle size is dependant on pressure and flow - 21 Ltr 200 Bar would be an 065
here's a chart
https://www.flowjet.co.uk/pressure-washer-nozzle-chart
-
Thanks. So it's midi quick release that everyone uses?
-
has any one used qwashers ? i was looking at there washers and they have twin inlet !! not shore what the benifit if this is ?
i run a 15 lpm 250 bar and it hammers through drives runs a 16inch fsc no issues if i was to up grade i would get 21lpm but at 250 bar not 200 just my opinion for what its worth :)
-
My first set up was from them over 10 years ago - decent people to deal with and back then couldn't be beaten on price.
All pumps are twin feed ( or could be ) the theory is that the pump has 2 sources of input flow and would work to full capacity -
main problem with this is the second inlet has a 90 degree turn causing cavitation in the water that slows the whole thing down.
Higher water flow = quicker and easier movement of the slurry - hire one for a day you will see how much better its is over large works (if your doing drives and patios then the difference may not the noticeable)
-
got some more questions.
does everyone generally use a hose reel? are these attached to the machine, on a trolley? or just placed on the ground near your machine?
what do you do if you don't have access to the rear garden from the outside? e.g. a midterrace property. do you run all your hoses through the house? or do you lob it over the roof perhaps :D
-
I think the answer depends on your work - if its small stuff then a reel on the m/c or trolley would be convienient
My vans have bolted down m/c's and reels in the van we carry as standard 2 x 100 h/p hose
and 200 meters of 3/4 water feed hose
never had to go through a house yet - there is usually an alley at the rear for access
-
200m of water feed! That is quite some length, especially when added with 200m of pressure hose out the other end.
I see America side they all seem to upgrade their hose to either uber flex or the flexihose. Is that less common here?
-
Ive just ordered a reel and will be van mounting my pressure washer in a few weeks. Setup and pack away with a portable machine and a bin adds quite a bit of time and faff that doesnt need to be there. As for poor rear access, same as windows just dont do it.
-
i can get a 1 year old 'Vanguard 23HP Mazzoni Gearbox Drive 30LPM @ 250 Bar' from someone i know who doesn't want this machine any more, so near enough the same price at the 21LPM version. it's tempting to go with this as it's a more powerful machine for little more. it's the one linked below:
https://www.rutlandpumps.com/briggs-23hp-mazzoni-30lpm-250-bar-wheelbarrow.html
forgetting it being second hand as it's barely been used and looks like new, what are the downsides to the machine over the same companies 21LPM version? Is fuel efficiency an issue? i understand all machines can be run at reduced revs, so i could under use the engine to make the machine only use 21LPM? does this cause issues for the engine?
how frequent is water draingage an issue? i've seen videos on youtube where guys have to vac the excess water and they have 21LPM machines. is this a common problem?
-
Water pressure and drainage will be your biggest enemy, im just learning as i go along at the minute but ive done one job where the tap flow was terrible and i must have wast an hour waiting for filling...another where the drainage was awfull sloping drive to the garage and no where for it to go. Both things slow you down, I used a gutter vac and a brush to get rid of the water but ive seen people use dirty water pumps and a gutter sucker thing that attaches to your lance.
30lpm is only going to win provided the tap pressure can keep up but you have the extra umph there if you need it so if you can afford a bigger machine why not, it seems like you are hell bent on getting one so just do it. ;D
-
Am I right in thinking though that a 30lpm machine can be turned down to a 21lpm machine? Like 30 is the max, but if I use the unloader value or reduce to revs of the engine this will just bring it right down to a much lower lpm no?
-
Basically you can do this - revs control the lpm so full revs would be your 30 lpm it it’s going to be trial and error for lower lpm
Unloader is pressure
-
I guess this would cause an issue for nozzle size though and I'd need to change them should I drop the lpm?
-
Yes I would say so
-
Water pressure and drainage will be your biggest enemy, im just learning as i go along at the minute but ive done one job where the tap flow was terrible and i must have wast an hour waiting for filling...another where the drainage was awfull sloping drive to the garage and no where for it to go. Both things slow you down, I used a gutter vac and a brush to get rid of the water but ive seen people use dirty water pumps and a gutter sucker thing that attaches to your lance.
30lpm is only going to win provided the tap pressure can keep up but you have the extra umph there if you need it so if you can afford a bigger machine why not, it seems like you are hell bent on getting one so just do it. ;D
ive just treated my self to a mud sucker not used it yet £104 from equip 2 clean ive got a job in a few weeks were im going to need it hope it works ;D
-
Water pressure and drainage will be your biggest enemy, im just learning as i go along at the minute but ive done one job where the tap flow was terrible and i must have wast an hour waiting for
ive just treated my self to a mud sucker not used it yet £104 from equip 2 clean ive got a job in a few weeks were im going to need it hope it works ;D
I bought one from Rutland pumps a few years ago , it was a waste of time.
-
o dear im going to test mine out this week i think check it works :'(
-
Is that what they are now 🥴
Brought mine a few years ago @ £35 each
They work well enough in the right conditions
-
dam big price hike :o
-
Tried the mud sucker today it’s fantastic really got me out of a huge jam with the pooling of water that had no we’re to go medium revs works best I found