Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: P @ F on December 05, 2019, 03:22:10 pm
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The common controller that most people use , 3 button type probably made by Spring .
If the calibration was set to full 99 is max I believe , how does the pump then react , does it just rely on the pressure switch ?
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celebration shouldn't be set that high, I have mine set to 47 and flow is on 37 with 1.4mm jets in brush. if yours is set to 99 on calibration your pump won't like it and all you'll do is bugger up pressure switch, what's the point of it it's just wasting money and time plus surely you must be using more water than you need,
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I don’t actually use one myself, I use this from eBay for £7 :D
I need to know as if anybody with the Spring type controller wishes to buy one of my diesel heaters then it would need to be set so that the controller does not stop the pump , the heater has a pressure relief valve that opens at 50psi.
So if calibration at max means running up to 100psi then it will be compatible as the PRV will do its job
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575562474_33C24180-D8BD-4F56-9461-0B3CAAB3BFC0.png)
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If using one of the spring controllers you bypass the pressure switch, so no it doesn’t rely on the pressure switch when set to 99.
All that will happen is you’ll constantly be putting max pressure through your system so theres a good chance you’ll wear down the connectors (the weakest point) when you shut the water off and the pressure builds.
That is if your pump shuts off at all, as if (like me) you shut water off in between windows, there probably wont be enough time for the pressure to build up enough by the time you’ve switched it back on again.
Will basically mean your pump is working 90% of the time, using battery power and strain on the pump.
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Mine is on about 45 and I have my flow on 96-97,I don’t dead end the pump I walk back to the van and turn it down.
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So then if all I want to do is get the pump to run 100% of the time is set cal to 99 and use whatever flow setting I desire ?
As there is a pressure relief valve within the diesel heater that opens up at 50psi the system won’t get strained as the water will just be released back to tank , do I have it correct ?
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you'd be better asking Ian Shepard - maybe re-title thread Spring controller question....
calibration varies depending on water temp and pressure - I think you would be correct but get a good second opinion first ;D
Darran
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Will do Darran , never thought of that !
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So then if all I want to do is get the pump to run 100% of the time is set cal to 99 and use whatever flow setting I desire ?
As there is a pressure relief valve within the diesel heater that opens up at 50psi the system won’t get strained as the water will just be released back to tank , do I have it correct ?
That would be my understanding yes, as the system would never build up enough pressure to shut the pump off due to your pressure relief valve.
All the same, as Smudger has said, Ian is probably your best point of call.
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Will do Darran , never thought of that !
The calibration value does not have a direct bearing on system pressure. The calibration value will depend on how hard the pump is running. The harder the pump is running the more current is drawn and the higher the cal value will be. Dead emd calibration is designed to stop the pump when a pole valve is closed before the pump pressure switch needs to open and in doing so protects the pressure switch.
Also the higher the flow rate is set on the controller the pump draws more current and Cal is based on that. My advice is that the chap set a flow rate they are happy with and then run auto cal.
Because of restrictions created in the hose driving a pump at 100% does not give much benefit. The reason for that is the hose has a maximum capacity it can carry, With a 100 meter of 8 mm ID hose and a 6mm ID pole hose the maximum is about 2.7 LPM at the brush head run flat out the pump is trying to force more water into the hose than it can carry and will draw 7 amps plus current. This puts a lot of strain on the pump motor and if the pressure switch opens under this load its more likely to arc and burn out. Setting the controller to around 65 flow rate will give the same 2.7LPM at the brush but with the pump drawing only 4 amps. There is also less load on the pump motor, and less heat generated.
At a flow of 65 Cal would come in around the 45 - 60 range at a guess and will give good flow. Hot water will make the hose wall softer and mean it expands a little more and quicker. With this set up Dead end cal nay be lower as the controller can be more sensitive .
Hope this help
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Thanks Ian , so can the controller be set to never turn the pump off under any circumstances whatsoever ?
The reason is that if the pump stops the water in the 2 heat exchangers within my diesel heater will be superheated to the point that the hoses explode off , I know as I have done it during early testing !
What if anything would you suggest ?
Thanks
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Stick a T-piece after the pump with one going to hose reel and a much smaller bore hose re cycling hot water back to tank?
That way when water is stopped at brush head, the water flow goes back to tank, but when open the use of smaller bore hose means the majority of flow goes to brush?
Pumps therefore never switch off
Or are you looking for a more “pro” solution..?
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Thanks Ian , so can the controller be set to never turn the pump off under any circumstances whatsoever ?
The reason is that if the pump stops the water in the 2 heat exchangers within my diesel heater will be superheated to the point that the hoses explode off , I know as I have done it during early testing !
What if anything would you suggest ?
Thanks
Setting cal to 99 would mean the control will probably not dead end the pump. But pressure will build up and the pump pressure switch would activate when the pole valve is closed.
Spring controllers are used with both diesel and gas heaters already.
What type of diesel heater are you using?
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This is self built , air heater to water heater conversion , once the pole is turned off the water diverts to a 50 psi pressure relief valve and then back to tank
The way I have it set with my simple pump controller pictured earlier means the pump draws 2.5 amp with open flow and 3 amp when the PRV is in use
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575573779_8083CA76-2054-4E03-8279-9FEACCB0AB1C.png)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575573779_D82D5958-62B3-453D-BC4B-0BD42E162FB4.png)
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This is self built , air heater to water heater conversion , once the pole is turned off the water diverts to a 50 psi pressure relief valve and then back to tank
The way I have it set with my simple pump controller pictured earlier means the pump draws 2.5 amp with open flow and 3 amp when the PRV is in use
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575573779_8083CA76-2054-4E03-8279-9FEACCB0AB1C.png)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575573779_D82D5958-62B3-453D-BC4B-0BD42E162FB4.png)
Ok thanks for the info. The controller is looking at current drawn by the pump to know when to dead end it. EG with cal set to 99 tbe pump would draw 5 to 6 amps before the controller Dead ends it. That would be well above the threshold that your PVR activates and the pump would not be stopped.
I would suggest manually setting the cal value starting around 80.
Water flow rates can then be adjusted as normal.
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Thanks very much Ian , that is great news , I was starting to think that this was going to be a problem if people had to swap out your controllers for another one , but all is well by the looks of it !
Thanks again, a great help :D
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Thanks very much Ian , that is great news , I was starting to think that this was going to be a problem if people had to swap out your controllers for another one , but all is well by the looks of it !
Thanks again, a great help :D
What flow controller does Ionics use with their heaters?
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Thanks very much Ian , that is great news , I was starting to think that this was going to be a problem if people had to swap out your controllers for another one , but all is well by the looks of it !
Thanks again, a great help :D
Hi Spruce. They use bespoke controllers on their systems which over the last couple years are manufactured by us.
What flow controller does Ionics use with their heaters?
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Thanks very much Ian , that is great news , I was starting to think that this was going to be a problem if people had to swap out your controllers for another one , but all is well by the looks of it !
Thanks again, a great help :D
Hi Spruce. They use bespoke controllers on their systems which over the last couple years is manufactured by us.
What flow controller does Ionics use with their heaters?
I would imagine they then don't need a controller with dead end on the hot side Ian as the pump runs continuously.
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the pressure switch still activates when using a spring controller, set the cal to 99 and it will just stop pumping when the pressure switch cuts in,
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Here the pressure release valve opens at 50 psi. This means water will be diveted from the pole to the tank. The pump will continue to run as in this case the controller would not DE the pump nor will the pump pressure switch activate as flow is maintained