Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: James chapman on April 03, 2017, 07:46:29 am
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Hi I have a problem with my digital varistream. It runs then gets a pressure build up and stops. With the p flashing Then sorts its self out runs then stops again. This is about a 10 second cycle. Obviously makes it unusable. I've tried it on another hosereel as I though it might be a block in that but it still happened. It's not the hose reel as I've tried it on another controller. I thought it was just when you plug it into the reel. It it still does it although takes a while longer to happen unplugged. Any ideas. Many rhanks
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Hi I have a problem with my digital varistream. It runs then gets a pressure build up and stops. With the p flashing Then sorts its self out runs then stops again. This is about a 10 second cycle. Obviously makes it unusable. I've tried it on another hosereel as I though it might be a block in that but it still happened. It's not the hose reel as I've tried it on another controller. I thought it was just when you plug it into the reel. It it still does it although takes a while longer to happen unplugged. Any ideas. Many rhanks
If you recalibrate the controller it will solve the problem. The P means you have reached the pressure the controller is currently set at.
The second instruction on the sheet is to adjust the pressure settings.
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As spruce says above.
The warm weather and then cold mornings can make the pressure setting change a little bit.
You'll need to increase it get a steady flow again.
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Hi I have a problem with my digital varistream. It runs then gets a pressure build up and stops. With the p flashing Then sorts its self out runs then stops again. This is about a 10 second cycle. Obviously makes it unusable. I've tried it on another hosereel as I though it might be a block in that but it still happened. It's not the hose reel as I've tried it on another controller. I thought it was just when you plug it into the reel. It it still does it although takes a while longer to happen unplugged. Any ideas. Many rhanks
If you recalibrate the controller it will solve the problem. The P means you have reached the pressure the controller is currently set at.
The second instruction on the sheet is to adjust the pressure settings.
Ditto As Bruce says
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I've just tried that on pretty much every setting and it doesn't even turn the pump on just straight to p on the controller.
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to review then the reel and pump work with a different control. 2 the Varistream showing P does the same with the reel connected or not and the control shows he same on more than one reel.
P suggests that the the controller has stopped the pump due to high pressure, But there are no blockages or air in the system and the pump works with a different control.
What is the age of the control , pump and battery ? Also what voltage does the battery show.
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I always bypass the switch on pumps if you do this and it still does it it's the cal,if you walk back to the van to turn the flow off you don't need the switch. I've had pumps last 3-4 years nonusing the switch you don't need to worry if you do dead end it won't blow the pump like I say I've always done it.
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I always bypass the switch on pumps if you do this and it still does it it's the cal,if you walk back to the van to turn the flow off you don't need the switch. I've had pumps last 3-4 years nonusing the switch you don't need to worry if you do dead end it won't blow the pump like I say I've always done it.
The Williamson unit works differently to the Spring manufactured controls in that with a Williamson control you have to bypass the pump pressure switch. In this case the pump pressure switch can not activate.
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The controller is a few years old the pump is less than a year I would say.
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I have actually ordered another analogue controller off eBay. So hoping it going to just be a straight swap.
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I bypassed the switch with every pump I've used with 3-4 different flow controllers too,pressure switches are a pain in the arse
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I have a pure freedom controll. It keep cutting out displaying 'ps' which i took to mean pressure swich.
I undo the filter, which i presume relesced the pressure. And it kicks off again. It keep doing this. Even though i have changed the pressure swich.
Do you think this could be down to callibration?
Lads getting fed up of it
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Is your pre pump strainer blocked?
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The controller is a few years old the pump is less than a year I would say.
If the controller is a number of years old it may have just come to the end of its life. Electronics wear over time through the heating and cooling cycle. Removing heat from the circuit is something we have done a lot of work on over the years as such the V11 runs a lot cooler.
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I have a pure freedom controll. It keep cutting out displaying 'ps' which i took to mean pressure swich.
I undo the filter, which i presume relesced the pressure. And it kicks off again. It keep doing this. Even though i have changed the pressure swich.
Do you think this could be down to callibration?
Lads getting fed up of it
This info can also be found on the Spring web site.
What do I do if PS is displayed?
Click to show
If PS is displayed, this means that the pump's pressure switch has been operated due to a high build up of pressure in your system. The controller is set to work with a 5.2 litre per minute pump up to about 100psi although it will work at higher ranges. It is worth pointing out that the controller does not activate the pump pressure switch. The controller is simply telling you the PS has opened. This will happen in because:
A. High pressure builds up in your system. The controller sets the water flow rate. The largest factors affecting pressure are jet size and hose size. The faster the flow rate and the greater the resistance to this flow, the greater the pressure. The controller monitors the build up of this pressure however it can only affect it through the flow rate you select.
B. The pump has become disconnected. Please see our wiring diagram in the user guide for correct connections. The controller checks for electrical current to the pump and if the controller cannot detect a pump in the circuit the default message is PS.
Common causes for the pressure switch operating are:
1. A restriction to the water flow, i.e. from a twisted hose.
2. Blocked or small water jets. (We recommended that the jets are no smaller than 2mm).
3. Grit or dirt trapped in the system.
4. Air trapped in the system.
5. Prolonged shut off of the water flow.
6. Check the wiring connections between the pump and controller. If there is a break or damaged connection the control can not see the pump.
7. In some case finding the restriction that has caused the high pressure is a process of elimination. Start by removing the brush and jets, does this clear the restriction? If 'no' then remove the pole hose and so on until you are back to the delivery pump outlet. Bear in mind that some hose reels have a non-return valve and in some cases these can jam causing high back pressure.
8. During very cold periods Ice can form in the Pump or hose line. Ice will obstruct the line and cause high back pressure build up. In turn this will activate the pump pressure switch.
9. Blocked Tank breather hole.
Blocking the tank breather hole can result in high pressure build up. As the tank empties the Pump will also draw air from the tank which is now effectively air tight. As air is drawn through the pump a Vacuum is created in your tank this will cause the tank contract ( Like a kids drink carton ) and high pressure in yours system.
Note: as B above:
The controller carries out an electrical test to ensure the pump and pressure switch are in the circuit. If the pump can not detect the pump due to damaged cable/connectors the control will display PS (pressure switch) as a default message. This is one of the crucial protections we put in place. The control no longer passes any current to the pump but instead retests the condition every few seconds. This prevents a dangerous condition occurring for example ( a loose moving or damaged connection touching ground (Van panels) because the controller is now limiting the energy.
Connectors and terminal blocks can also be a source of volt drop for this reason regularly inspecting your connectors replacing any that are worn or damaged is a good idea. Also check connections are secure with good contact to the copper core.
Check for any damaged cable where insulation has been chaffed exposing the copper core not only is there a risk of a short knocking out the fuse the exposed core can be a source of volt drop and become very hot in some circumstance,s this heat can be sufficient to melt insulation and fuse increasing the risk of fire.
An Issue with old connectors is corrosion something that is difficult to avoid in a wet environment such as WFP so keeping connections as dry as possible by placing cable into conduit is a good idea. Corrosion will increase the resistance of the connector and in turn volt drop across the connector.
A badly worn or corroded connector can become an energy wasting resistor. If your connectors are excessively hot they either need replacing or tightening, as your are wasting precious battery power.
The harder the pump works, the more current will be drawn. With poor connections in a system this will increase the energy lost in heat. Because Power = I*I*R (current squared multiplied by the connector's resistance). So the power lost in a bad connector is actually increasing exponentially. Compared to the energy consumed by the pump this is small. But every little helps!
A good connector should only feel warm to the touch in normal use.
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The pump, is creating pressure in the system along with the hose and jets. So depending on how fats the pump is running and Hose/Jets ID pressure in the system will change.
The Controller is not directly effecting the pressure but we can monitor it. We do this through calibrating the control to the pump . What we are looking for is the open flow current draw of the pump and pressure created by the pump. Then when flow has stopped both current and pressure increase. The controller sees the change and will stop the pump displaying DE.
In some cases if flow rate and calibration is very high and combined with small ID hose as the flow is stopped high pressure can operate the pump PS before the control dead ends the pump.
As the post above the control is also looking at the electrical integrity of the circuit in order to protect the system as a whole. A loose connection, worn or corroded connectors fuse/ fuse holder can create problem because they become a resistor rather than a conductor. For this reason connectors should only ever be warm to the touch if they are very hot change them. Also check for exposed copper core or damage to the cable as this to can create an issue.
We engineer the control to carry out this electrical test to detect possible faults and shut down the pump. Continuing to supply current to an electrical fault means the fault become very hot with risks of further shorts in the system or worse. By shuttingthe pump down as we do when a fault is detected protects the whole system.
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Is your pre pump strainer blocked?
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No i have cleaned it out as i thought that could be an issue
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Thanks Ian. I will run through all that.
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Can I just ask something.
What is the point of a Varistream?
Personally it's always been a solution to a problem that never existed.
Can someone explain?
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Can I just ask something.
What is the point of a Varistream?
Personally it's always been a solution to a problem that never existed.
Can someone explain?
Interesting question. Use of controls is very much a personal thing. I will try answer the question based on my experiences and testing.
In the early days of WFP and pump delivery systems a number of factors came to the fore quite quickly. Water use was high, Battery were going flay quickly due to high current draw of the pump (up to 7 amps) The pumps become very hot as there were running flat out. As flow was stopped due to the high conductive load across the pump pressure switch arcing meant that the pump PS was burning out regularly
So the problems very much existed. Cleaners were getting through a lot of water and suffered down time as the pump PS needed regular replacement plus battery charge did not last long.
A pump run flat out is drawing 7 amps an hour plus its trying to dump 5 litres a minute into a hose line. The flow is the restricted by the hose/jets and perhaps even a tap. The result is high current draw and high back pressure meaning that of the 5LPM the pump is producing perhaps 2 to 3 LPM reach the glass. Combine high pressure and Current you get heat, leading to vey hot pump motors, connectors and cables ECT.
So the question was asked " If only 2 - 3 LPM is needed at the glass why not have the pump produce 2 -3 LPM" Controllers allowed the user to manage the pump speed so the pump only produced flow that was needed. This at a stroke reduced the pressure in the line, Reduced current load on the battery and reduced the large conductive load on the PS as flow stopped.
The result was Battery charge lasted longer, Water use was reduced, Less down time due to blown hoses, PS burned out ect Cleaner were able to do more work with the same amount of water meaning more earned and the ability to do more work (if they wanted) in a day.With a controller the pump will produce only the 2 - 3 LPM needed at the glass with the pump drawing 3 amps an hour plus the pump motor is under less stress and runs cooler meaning less failures and down time
Controllers helped make the system more efficient, As time has gone by ( we have been producing controls for 11 years) They have gone from V1 to V11 and do much more than just alter pump speed. There is now a number of different controls to do different jobs, Different manufactures offering a choice to market meaning people can have a very simple analogue with a potentiometer through to LED controls that manage the whole system Out controls protect the system with a number of safety features that work in the back ground 99% of the time you would never know they are testing while you work
However in the end its about personal choice and what works for each
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Can I just ask something.
What is the point of a Varistream?
Personally it's always been a solution to a problem that never existed.
Can someone explain?
The list of benefits is endless. If you don't use one you really are missing out! Mind you, many use them but don't understand how to calibrate them properly- it's hardly rocket science but makes or breaks it.
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I am always happy to help with Calibration and there are some videos on this too.
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Can I just ask something.
What is the point of a Varistream?
Personally it's always been a solution to a problem that never existed.
Can someone explain?
Interesting question. Use of controls is very much a personal thing. I will try answer the question based on my experiences and testing.
In the early days of WFP and pump delivery systems a number of factors came to the fore quite quickly. Water use was high, Battery were going flay quickly due to high current draw of the pump (up to 7 amps) The pumps become very hot as there were running flat out. As flow was stopped due to the high conductive load across the pump pressure switch arcing meant that the pump PS was burning out regularly
So the problems very much existed. Cleaners were getting through a lot of water and suffered down time as the pump PS needed regular replacement plus battery charge did not last long.
A pump run flat out is drawing 7 amps an hour plus its trying to dump 5 litres a minute into a hose line. The flow is the restricted by the hose/jets and perhaps even a tap. The result is high current draw and high back pressure meaning that of the 5LPM the pump is producing perhaps 2 to 3 LPM reach the glass. Combine high pressure and Current you get heat, leading to vey hot pump motors, connectors and cables ECT.
So the question was asked " If only 2 - 3 LPM is needed at the glass why not have the pump produce 2 -3 LPM" Controllers allowed the user to manage the pump speed so the pump only produced flow that was needed. This at a stroke reduced the pressure in the line, Reduced current load on the battery and reduced the large conductive load on the PS as flow stopped.
The result was Battery charge lasted longer, Water use was reduced, Less down time due to blown hoses, PS burned out ect Cleaner were able to do more work with the same amount of water meaning more earned and the ability to do more work (if they wanted) in a day.With a controller the pump will produce only the 2 - 3 LPM needed at the glass with the pump drawing 3 amps an hour plus the pump motor is under less stress and runs cooler meaning less failures and down time
Controllers helped make the system more efficient, As time has gone by ( we have been producing controls for 11 years) They have gone from V1 to V11 and do much more than just alter pump speed. There is now a number of different controls to do different jobs, Different manufactures offering a choice to market meaning people can have a very simple analogue with a potentiometer through to LED controls that manage the whole system Out controls protect the system with a number of safety features that work in the back ground 99% of the time you would never know they are testing while you work
However in the end its about personal choice and what works for each
Thank you for that explanation.
That really has answered my question.
;) 8)
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I just use the pump as is with a tap on the end of the hose. Never had any problems personally.
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Thanks Ian. It appears to have been a bad connection near the pump. Never would have put it down to that
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I don't need anything to go wrong. A waste of money.When I did use one I always had the pump running full tilt so got rid and no more hassles. ITS there to make use think we are technical which window cleaning is not. The more water on the glass the better it will clean and the quicker you are finished. The principle is easy" float the dirt of the glass".
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I don't need anything to go wrong. A waste of money.When I did use one I always had the pump running full tilt so got rid and no more hassles. ITS there to make use think we are technical which window cleaning is not. The more water on the glass the better it will clean and the quicker you are finished. The principle is easy" float the dirt of the glass".
Perfect example of someone who hasn't a clue how use nor set one up!! ;D