Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: H MAN on March 31, 2016, 11:58:30 pm

Title: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on March 31, 2016, 11:58:30 pm
As you can see how versatile this swivel is in video below.
Have also made a different type as well with the same angle on it.
But why are manufactures not putting this very slight angle on there connections.
Watching the ones that go side to side on wf brushes seems very restrictive in movement.
DIY Swivel with ground level WFP brush
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NIciDQL53eA#t=3

THIS IS THE BRUSH BEING USED
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/t31.0-8/12909565_10209335673457248_533186734705144753_o.jpg)
THE SWIVEL SEE SLIGHT ANGLE.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12801569_10209335950904184_1124209397103012467_n.jpg?oh=5f83db216fe36512bb187c2de3c56d25&oe=577FA49C&__gda__=1467592913_103b91c47900e1ced6a271db396553e2)
HERE  IS ANOTHER ONE THAT WORKS THE SAME WAY ALSO HAS THAT ANGLE.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/t31.0-8/12901397_10209335959064388_8814226555664691546_o.jpg)

Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Smurf on April 01, 2016, 12:05:31 am
Sorry you lost me on that one  H Man ???
I use this type so what is different to yours?
http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/goosenecks-pole-fittings/plastic-gooseneck-system/screw-on-type2-angle-adapter-gooseneck-with-swivel-brush-socket-long-length.html
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on April 01, 2016, 12:22:57 am
Sorry you lost me on that one  H Man ???
I use this type so what is different to yours?
http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/goosenecks-pole-fittings/plastic-gooseneck-system/screw-on-type2-angle-adapter-gooseneck-with-swivel-brush-socket-long-length.html

So the Gardiner has this type of swivel take note it is attached 90% on the brush as below.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpt1/t31.0-8/11717371_10209027636276511_64940588434735116_o.jpg)

BUT IN BOTH THESE PICTURES YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY HAVE A SLIGHT ANGLE.
WHICH GIVES FREER MOVEMENT OF THE BRUSH.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12801569_10209335950904184_1124209397103012467_n.jpg?oh=5f83db216fe36512bb187c2de3c56d25&oe=577FA49C&__gda__=1467592913_103b91c47900e1ced6a271db396553e2)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/t31.0-8/12901397_10209335959064388_8814226555664691546_o.jpg)
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Spruce on April 01, 2016, 07:20:11 am
Sorry you lost me on that one  H Man ???
I use this type so what is different to yours?
http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/goosenecks-pole-fittings/plastic-gooseneck-system/screw-on-type2-angle-adapter-gooseneck-with-swivel-brush-socket-long-length.html

So the Gardiner has this type of swivel take note it is attached 90% on the brush as below.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpt1/t31.0-8/11717371_10209027636276511_64940588434735116_o.jpg)

BUT IN BOTH THESE PICTURES YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY HAVE A SLIGHT ANGLE.
WHICH GIVES FREER MOVEMENT OF THE BRUSH.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12801569_10209335950904184_1124209397103012467_n.jpg?oh=5f83db216fe36512bb187c2de3c56d25&oe=577FA49C&__gda__=1467592913_103b91c47900e1ced6a271db396553e2)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/t31.0-8/12901397_10209335959064388_8814226555664691546_o.jpg)

Exactly, that's what we were talking about on another thread a couple of weeks back.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: ChumBucket on April 01, 2016, 07:28:13 am
Yep,  a swivel with an angle works much better.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on April 01, 2016, 07:48:10 am
Quote from: Spruce link=topic=20194

Exactly, that's what we were talking about on another thread a couple of weeks back.
[/quote
So now suppose some one will say did I say anything to a manufacture answer yes.
Seems to be the go to just have side to side action swivels as at least 4 manufactures done already.

So it is nothing new.
Have to  laugh one has already said that they developed the side to side action and nothing like it.
But we know different
While think of it here is another swivel we did using angle aluminium.
MADE THIS FROM ALUMINIUM ANGLE
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12916971_10209341811290690_8244471314263523950_o.jpg)
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Dave Willis on April 01, 2016, 07:48:47 am
Gardiners one is simpler, lighter and cheap as chips. I don't find the angle a problem. The Gardiners one is on an adjustable angle adapter anyway.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Dave Willis on April 01, 2016, 07:54:05 am
Side to side movement is restricted a bit by the pole hose and the pipes to the jets anyway.
I suppose you want to claim prior art on this one too?

The only improvement on the Gardiners swivel would be a quick way of locking it but it's not a problem to me. If the angle is that much of a problem you can use the screw in type swivel with a 45 degree socket.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on April 01, 2016, 08:13:13 am
Side to side movement is restricted a bit by the pole hose and the pipes to the jets anyway.
I suppose you want to claim prior art on this one too?

The only improvement on the Gardiners swivel would be a quick way of locking it but it's not a problem to me.

No that got nothing to do with prior art.
Locking why when you have that, with a very slight angle having it this way you have complete control .
Here is an video we done showing how easy it is to use.
Just twisting it.
NEW TYPE SWIVEL WATER FED BRUSH IN ACTION.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKBUP3bY86s
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Dave Willis on April 01, 2016, 08:16:38 am
You might want to lock it because a swivel is not needed on finials or guttering. My Gardiners swivels do everything yours does even with a ninety degree swivel point.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on April 01, 2016, 08:28:52 am
You might want to lock it because a swivel is not needed on finials or guttering. My Gardiners swivels do everything yours does even with a ninety degree swivel point.
Glad you brought that up Dave;
Start this video at the 30 second mark it shows how easy it is to use for scrubbing as you will see.
Nothing is locked in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wBdkgrYdsI
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on April 01, 2016, 10:07:06 am
Anyway should not be a problem to modify the existing swivel the Angle.
And file the under side of the connection.
Then you good to go. ;D
 
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Smurf on April 01, 2016, 10:51:54 am
Like you say a good swivel on a wfp pole makes working so much easier.
I also often use that Gardiner swivel with the brush swivelled long ways. Meaning in line with the pole to scrub conservatory frames etc.

H Man I still did not get what you were on about though regards to an angle.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on April 01, 2016, 11:46:35 am
Like you say a good swivel on a wfp pole makes working so much easier.
I also often use that Gardiner swivel with the brush swivelled long ways. Meaning in line with the pole to scrub conservatory frames etc.

H Man I still did not get what you were on about though regards to an angle.
Suppose the only way you work that out is ether try someone that has it sure you would notice the different.
Or do a DIY of the one that have shown.
That is only way you will get it.
Think there was some one on here that  said
Yep,  a swivel with an angle works much better.
He gets it maybe he might explain a bit better then I can. :)
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: ChumBucket on April 01, 2016, 01:06:38 pm
Hman is correct regarding Swivel angles. Anyone who can remember the Mkl Gaz Swivel should be able to remember just how good it was.  Not the brush as that was pants but the Swivel was angled from the pivot meaning much more and better angles achieved for less input from the user. Too much emphasis has been put on the distance between pivot and brush stock when the real issue has always been the lack of any angle on all available swivels. Anyone who was to use the two side by side would immediately recognise the difference.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: M & C Window Cleaning on April 01, 2016, 02:02:07 pm
I've never used a swivel but want to give it a try, so I am reading this thread with interest. Thank you H MAN

Ordered some parts from Gardiner a few days ago but haven't yet put them to use. The part pictured earlier in this thread is one of those parts. Could what you're suggesting about brush/swivel angle be accomplished with a wedge under the top part of the swivel that attaches to the brush?

Hopefully I'll be giving this a try early next week
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Dave Willis on April 01, 2016, 03:00:10 pm
Don't complicate it - there's no need the Gardiners swivel is fine.

By the way I've got a box full of these - rubbish really but worked ok in their day.

Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Dave Willis on April 01, 2016, 03:04:46 pm
Gardiners swivel in action - what's wrong with this?

Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: ChumBucket on April 01, 2016, 03:06:29 pm
Don't complicate it - there's no need the Gardiners swivel is fine.

By the way I've got a box full of these - rubbish really but worked ok in their day.

Ha harr, I've still got a couple of those. They were the MKII swivels.

Don't get me wrong, 90 degree swivels work fine but angled one work considerably better but it's difficult to explain why until the user has experienced one. 90 degree ones are restricted compared to angled versions.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: ChumBucket on April 01, 2016, 03:13:08 pm
Gardiners swivel in action - what's wrong with this?

If the pivot was angled you would have to move much less to achieve the same. Much less body movement is required from an angled swivel- we've just got so used to 90 degree ones that it's difficult to imagine the degree of difference a proper, angled swivel makes- don't ask me about the physics/mathematics behind it however but it is fact.  Similar with 90 degree brush sockets, 45 degree ones are SO much better in every aspect- there is nothing a 90 degree socket does better than a 45 one IMO they have just been accepted.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Dave Willis on April 01, 2016, 03:22:03 pm
That's the new Gardiners brush that came out today. It's called the 'Sublime' best brush ever.

I also tested a new brush called the 'Ridiculous' that went on to become the 'Neon' or something.

Could probably heat up the Gardiners swivel plate and bend it if I could be bothered.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: ChumBucket on April 01, 2016, 03:43:42 pm
That's the new Gardiners brush that came out today. It's called the 'Sublime' best brush ever.

I also tested a new brush called the 'Ridiculous' that went on to become the 'Neon' or something.

Could probably heat up the Gardiners swivel plate and bend it if I could be bothered.

This is something I have been considering, just never got round to it. The other this is that I don't know what degree of angle is required for optimum use- I'd have to guess, do a bit of trial and error. I'm considering the same for the 90 degree QL sockets too.
 I've heard Aqua-fresh are giving away a free Neon brush with every tube of toothpaste they sell. :-X
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on April 01, 2016, 05:28:54 pm
Gardiners swivel in action - what's wrong with this?

If the pivot was angled you would have to move much less to achieve the same. Much less body movement is required from an angled swivel- we've just got so used to 90 degree ones that it's difficult to imagine the degree of difference a proper, angled swivel makes- don't ask me about the physics/mathematics behind it however but it is fact.  Similar with 90 degree brush sockets, 45 degree ones are SO much better in every aspect- there is nothing a 90 degree socket does better than a 45 one IMO they have just been accepted.
Thank you  Blind  Pierre;
You explained much better then I could. ;D
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: tonycarr on April 01, 2016, 06:04:12 pm
I've never used a swivel but want to give it a try, so I am reading this thread with interest. Thank you H MAN

Ordered some parts from Gardiner a few days ago but haven't yet put them to use. The part pictured earlier in this thread is one of those parts. Could what you're suggesting about brush/swivel angle be accomplished with a wedge under the top part of the swivel that attaches to the brush?

Hopefully I'll be giving this a try early next week

hi mark have you got the one of the adjustable goosenecks with the swivel?  if not iv got a spare one if you want to borrow to have a try,  i think there excellent, although i think H Man may well be right by having it angled. as much as i like working with mine, sometimes find it a bit unresponsive (difficult to explain what i mean) im visualising using one with that added angle  shown by H and i think that could be the answer. need to get me heat gun out

H-Man what angle degree have you made?

tony
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Smurf on April 01, 2016, 07:01:42 pm
I must be thick as can't see what you are all on about. What difference is it going to make to a swivel action if the male bit that it connects to the female swivel bit on the brush is slightly angled. ???

Now were did I put me bloody heat gun...Might as well knacker a brand new spare swivel to try and see if it makes jack or not. If it don't and I break it I will be sending H Man a bill   ;D
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: M & C Window Cleaning on April 01, 2016, 08:04:39 pm
I've never used a swivel but want to give it a try, so I am reading this thread with interest. Thank you H MAN

Ordered some parts from Gardiner a few days ago but haven't yet put them to use. The part pictured earlier in this thread is one of those parts. Could what you're suggesting about brush/swivel angle be accomplished with a wedge under the top part of the swivel that attaches to the brush?

Hopefully I'll be giving this a try early next week

hi mark have you got the one of the adjustable goosenecks with the swivel?  if not iv got a spare one if you want to borrow to have a try,  i think there excellent, although i think H Man may well be right by having it angled. as much as i like working with mine, sometimes find it a bit unresponsive (difficult to explain what i mean) im visualising using one with that added angle  shown by H and i think that could be the answer. need to get me heat gun out

H-Man what angle degree have you made?

tony

Hi Tony,
I ordered the necessary parts to fit to my existing resi neck not realising that what I had ordered were spares. Should have been obvious (doh, my bad) and they didn't come with the bolt that the swivel pivots on. So I'm waiting for that part to arrive before I can use it. It was posted  earlier so am hoping to try it out Monday. Thanks for your offer buddy
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: tonycarr on April 01, 2016, 10:33:07 pm
I must be thick as can't see what you are all on about. What difference is it going to make to a swivel action if the male bit that it connects to the female swivel bit on the brush is slightly angled. ???

Now were did I put me bloody heat gun...Might as well knacker a brand new spare swivel to try and see if it makes jack or not. If it don't and I break it I will be sending H Man a bill   ;D



 ;D I wouldn't heat up an existing one, I'd make one as per the video, I honestly think that having that slight angle would make a great product even better, I'm gonna make one over the weekend and test it out
I'll let you know how it goes   ;)

tony
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: tonycarr on April 01, 2016, 10:35:27 pm
No probs Mark

hows ya back r u working?

Tony
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Smurf on April 01, 2016, 10:37:14 pm
I could never get hold of that plastic pipe H Man uses so never bothered making stuff myself.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: tonycarr on April 01, 2016, 10:47:03 pm
I have a section of drainpipe in the shed I might cut a  piece out of that, then use the heat gun to shape it
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: M & C Window Cleaning on April 01, 2016, 11:06:17 pm
No probs Mark

hows ya back r u working?

Tony

Yeah, it's a slow recovery though. Just did half day today. Had fun with the new Ultimate flocked with fans. All new for me. Never used flocked or fans before. So far I'm liking both very much
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on April 01, 2016, 11:56:19 pm
Here is one just found did this about 2 years ago.
For the people that have Wagtail handles.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uakV_i4y3aU
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtl1/t31.0-8/12671753_10209351158284359_876219374522613425_o.jpg)
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: slap bash on April 02, 2016, 06:53:24 am
The thing that put me off swivel neck was the floppy feeling of the brush when removing the brush fro the glass and replacing it back on the glass again. I always felt it should have some resistance and should return to a 90-degree position. at right angles to the pole. I have thought of making a bridle with poli hose to achieve this returned action so it will give you a more ridged feel when
 using this setup.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: M & C Window Cleaning on April 02, 2016, 08:26:36 am
The thing that put me off swivel neck was the floppy feeling of the brush when removing the brush fro the glass and replacing it back on the glass again. I always felt it should have some resistance and should return to a 90-degree position. at right angles to the pole. I have thought of making a bridle with poli hose to achieve this returned action so it will give you a more ridged feel when
 using this setup.

When I was first lent some kit to try eight yrs ago by a friend, the pole was fitted with a swivel and that is my exact recollection of it. Had a ball joint like the one shown earlier if memory serves and I hated it. So I never fitted one to my poles. But I'm getting an increasing amount of work where I have to reach over the side of connys and the like where it could be useful, so I'm going to give it another try. My JG 'T' is at the top of the resi neck acting as a stop for the hose so am hoping that will prevent some of the floppy feeling caused by the swivel.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: ChumBucket on April 02, 2016, 10:01:45 am
Gardiner swivels can be freely adjusted to make them as tight or as loose as you wish. My preference is just enough tension to prevent the brush from flopping off the glass.
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: tonycarr on April 03, 2016, 12:21:45 am
Gardiner swivels can be freely adjusted to make them as tight or as loose as you wish. My preference is just enough tension to prevent the brush from flopping off the glass.

yep agree all in the tension

tony
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: KS Cleaning on April 03, 2016, 01:17:35 am
 ;D
That's the new Gardiners brush that came out today. It's called the 'Sublime' best brush ever.

I also tested a new brush called the 'Ridiculous' that went on to become the 'Neon' or something.

Could probably heat up the Gardiners swivel plate and bend it if I could be bothered.
;D ;D
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: KS Cleaning on April 03, 2016, 01:28:26 am
Here is one just found did this about 2 years ago.
For the people that have Wagtail handles.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uakV_i4y3aU
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtl1/t31.0-8/12671753_10209351158284359_876219374522613425_o.jpg)
WTF, preaching to the masses on how to make your working day easier.....................then sticking a vikan brush on the end of your pole ;D
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: H MAN on April 03, 2016, 11:25:08 am
Here is one just found did this about 2 years ago.
For the people that have Wagtail handles.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uakV_i4y3aU
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtl1/t31.0-8/12671753_10209351158284359_876219374522613425_o.jpg)
WTF, preaching to the masses on how to make your working day easier.....................then sticking a vikan brush on the end of your pole ;D
  This particular brush we generally use for heavy duty general  scrubbing works well.
The good ones  we will not use for general cleaning.
You must keep a brush like this for the same reason??

Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: Smurf on April 03, 2016, 01:59:22 pm
I have 3 old vikan bricks that still work well if/when needed on certain jobs I do.
Old habbits die hard as not all new wfp brushes I find work that well as a vikan  ;D
Title: Re: SWIVEL MOVEMENT IMPORTANT?
Post by: M & C Window Cleaning on April 03, 2016, 05:12:11 pm
I have 3 old vikan bricks that still work well if/when needed on certain jobs I do.
Old habbits die hard as not all new wfp brushes I find work that well as a vikan  ;D

Just as long as you don't accidentally hit the window with em eh!  ;D ;D