Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Tom.m on March 30, 2016, 07:34:05 pm
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Apparently a customer of mine is disgusted with my firm because we let ourselves in his back garden without contacting him prior.
He's giving it the big one because he's a solicitor.
Do I just demand payment tell him to do one or write it off?
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Is it a new customer? Did he say you can go round back without letting him know?
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How did he think you were going to clean the rear? Hover?
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I would not argue with a solicitor as people can get very funny about someone being on their property unannounced especially when gate and fence hopping.
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I would not argue with a solicitor as people can get very funny about someone being on their property unannounced especially when gate and fence hopping.
They are not as clever as they think they are. Most try to intimidate you. If you quoted to clean and he accepted he wont have a leg to stand on UNLESS he said something on the lines of only do them when I am there/let me know first
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I had a falling out with one of my custies bout eight years ago over a locked gate. I'd made arrangements with her to leave it open and she didn't. So I let myself in (Bolt was at top of gate) and did the job but it seems she thought that by leaving it locked it would somehow convey to me that she had decided she didn't want her windows cleaned anymore. She then accused me of trespassing. There was no note or anything, just a bolted gate.
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I remember reading that someone gate hopped to clean the back windows and as a favour moved the washing off the line and then got accused of playing with the woman’s underwear. The funny thing was the chap was an x police officer so should have known better ;D ;D
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I've been cleaning his windows for about 3 months. I've also pressure washed his patio and cleaned all the carpets in his house.
Can't understand why he's so offended. I usually send him an email reminder for the gate but this time I didn't. It's not like I booted the gate through.
My business partner wants to just let him have it as a freebie but I'd like to go round and speak face to face. (obviously a keyboard warrior)
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Face to face with the t*sser
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Bloody ambulance chaser.
"I am deeply concerned and disappointed by the way you gained access to my property without notice or my consent. Irrespective of there being “no padlock,” you are professionals and one does not expect a firm of your quality to be acting in such a fashion.
I’m terribly sorry Tom but this incident is worrying and even more shocking if is this your firm’s standard practice. With respect, it amounts to trespass.
I don’t want to argue over such a nominal amount, but the situation is not satisfactory as it currently stands, and I therefore hope an amicable solution can be agreed.
I really do not want this to tarnish what high regard I had for your firm."
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Can't understand why he's so offended. I usually send him an email reminder for the gate but this time I didn't. It's not like I booted the gate through.
My business partner wants to just let him have it as a freebie but I'd like to go round and speak face to face. (obviously a keyboard warrior)
Your customer facing skills suck. You've obviously told him you'll pre notify as you've been doing that. Even if you didn't tell him that by virtue of the fact you have been pre notifying then thats how its goes, your relationship with him. Thats what he expects from you, and thats why he does not expect a firm like you to act that way. He's taken aback.
You want to go and see him "face to face"?
Me however would of said..i'm really sorry i did send a text, i always do. Did it not come through ? Somethings gone wrong i'll look into it.
Ignore your business partner who wants to do anything sensible, just go front him, tell him how it is. Don't be spoken to like that by a wannabee Ambulance chaser, dump, and get some more. Its your business, drive it foreward, don't ever worry about customers, just put them in their place. Face to face preferably and you'll go a long way.
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The way I see it, he's agreed to have his windows cleaned on a monthly basis. I only emailed him so I don't have to jump the bloody gate.
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@Clean Clear
You are joking I hope.
I have never in 20 years had any one of my customers make such a palaver over opening an unlocked gate and walking through and cleaning their windows.
The solicitor is being precious and demanding. I believe he is insulting in the way he is communicating and all this high-falutin whiny "I view your firm in high regard but am disappointed" is a load of passive-aggressive tommy-rot. Who views window cleaners in "high regard"? Get a grip lawman.
I wouldn't work for a muppet like that. What's next? "You left foot prints on my lawn, you trespasser you - gimme compensation?" I would dump on the spot and never respond.
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Oh did mention that he had a for sale sign outside his house.
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Your choice to keep him or not. But doesnt the law also imply that if a window is left open and unsecure that if a intruder comes into the house. It can be turn/twisted in legal terms that he/she was invited into the property!
He knowa as well as we know, verbal agreements are not held as legal prove. However there is an angreement which exists for the windows in entirety are to be cleaned by you or a representative of your company on a fixed time scale for a fixed amount. Every thing else is subsidiary to this
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A letter to the lawman. ;D
Dear Sir,
I am very disappointed you hold my firm in high regard and believe me to be professional; I am not. I am a window cleaner you supercilious fool. Window cleaners typically "tip up" at their customers "gaffs", clean their windows to a good standard and expect to be paid promptly.
Window cleaners do not wish to be held in high esteem and do not care whether their customers get their panties in a bunch because they have walked onto a customers property at the previously agreed schedule.
If I had pee'd on your roses or taken a dump over your drain I could understand you getting upset. If I had happily entered your back garden and caught you sunbathing in skimpy clothing I could understand some slight embarrassment all round but nothing that couldn't be humorously dealt with by all parties.
If I had shown up at your lounge window and seen the risque stuff you were watching on your computer or disturbed you in an act of endearment with your dearly beloved wife then maybe you would have a point; but I knocked the front door and rightly guessed you were not at home so cleaned your windows. How shocking for you. Go and lie down with an ice pack on your head and don't forget to make a whiplash claim.
Now pay up you miserable tight-assed little QC or I will report you to the Law Society for bringing your profession into disrepute by your treating a minion like me so badly that I feel a PTSD claim coming on.
Your obedient servant,
Windy Washer to the gentry.
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ide e.mail him back and say something on the lines of dont bother paying me and find a nother wc if ur guna be so pety about a freging gate ::)roll
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Please copy and paste mr golds reply and send it to him, i would love to see his response
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It is petty of him .
If you have enough work then just dump him politely .
He may then ask you to arrange a time etc fir your next clean and pay .
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@Clean Clear
You are joking I hope.
Not sure what makes you think i'm joking ? I'm not. I'm not going to go into the whole thing of pre notifying as its been done to death here. I do both, some i pre notify and some i don't. I know the pro's and cons from my side and the customers side, so we don't even have to go there.
Regards the OP, he has been pre notifying. In my experience, when i have turned up at a customers that i usually pre notify and i havn't this time, due to an error or some such...they have been most perplexed. I've had a phone call the same evening from customers i've never spoken to for years to ask me................."how did you get over"? And i've also a big aggresive guy come up to a co worker sitting in the passenger seat of my fully sign written van and ask him "you got a problem, what you want what you doing here" ? Until he seen my face, then he said.......never knew you where coming today Mike, i usually get a message? Bottom line is some people take their security seriously.
Notify, don't notify...........do what you like. But i'd be miffed if someone said they'll let me know when they're coming then turn up willy nilly without letting me know. The Solicitor is miffed, like most of my customers have been when i've done it. So thats my first hand experience. So no, i'm not joking. Mind you where i live they all have CCTV, Alarms, posts in the drive so you can't get the car out without un locking it etc..........
You may live in Camberwick Green with Windy Miller making flour and delivering eggs around the village and the postman going about his business in his little red van, and the window cleaner going about his business from house to house, some of us live in the 21st Century.
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A letter to the lawman. ;D
Dear Sir,
I am very disappointed you hold my firm in high regard and believe me to be professional; I am not. I am a window cleaner you supercilious fool. Window cleaners typically "tip up" at their customers "gaffs", clean their windows to a good standard and expect to be paid promptly.
Window cleaners do not wish to be held in high esteem and do not care whether their customers get their panties in a bunch because they have walked onto a customers property at the previously agreed schedule.
If I had pee'd on your roses or taken a dump over your drain I could understand you getting upset. If I had happily entered your back garden and caught you sunbathing in skimpy clothing I could understand some slight embarrassment all round but nothing that couldn't be humorously dealt with by all parties.
If I had shown up at your lounge window and seen the risque stuff you were watching on your computer or disturbed you in an act of intimacy with your dearly beloved wife then maybe you would have a point; but I knocked the front door and rightly guessed you were not at home so cleaned your windows. How shocking for you. Go and lie down with an ice pack on your head and don't forget to make a whiplash claim.
Now pay up you miserable tight-assed little QC or I will report you to the Law Society for bringing your profession into disrepute by your treating a minion like me so badly that I feel a PTSD claim coming on.
Your obedient servant,
Windy Washer to the gentry.
Thats a cracking letter ;D.
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I think my view would be that I'm a window cleaner and am used to accessing properties to clean windows. It's how it works.
If the bloke didn't want his property accessed, then why ask for the windows to be cleaned in the first place?
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I think my view would be that I'm a window cleaner and am used to accessing properties to clean windows. It's how it works.
If the bloke didn't want his property accessed, then why ask for the windows to be cleaned in the first place?
Have you read it properley Ross ? He's been notifying him, then didn't ? I agree with what you say. But how do you change from notifying to not notifying ? Don't say to me..."tell them", because he never. Have we got your full attention tonight ? !!! ;D
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Something called implied right of access ... not sure if it applies in this situation .... do u know any solicitors that could tell u more
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I used to find it funny when i was traditional window cleaning, when people would, when wanting a quote if they saw me in street, ask "are u a window cleaner?" Im stood there with all my gear and bucket on belt, unger ergotec pouches on, bucket and ladders. I used to say, "No im just attempting to break in,,,,,,or, no im the plumber!!!"
Or likewise as some have mentioned, ones have said that i havent cleaned because the gate was locked, so how coulx i do backs!!!!!! Hellooooo people, a window cleaner with a ladder,,,,,its not rocket science, obviously i would explain it in a more civil and business like manner. But ultimately the point is made that i was hired to clean the windows on a monthly basis and unless im told otherwise i will complete that arrangement. On the understanding that a locked gate does not present a problem in preventing this, unless told otherwise. In this instance, it wasnt agreed or weve not been told it was agreed, that the solicitor would be pre notified and the gate is not actually bolted in the first place!
Even if he was notified and on this occasion was not, for whatever reason, it doesnt present itself justification to be ranting tresspassing. Tresspassing is going onto private property without concent. That would include the front, side and rear of the property, not just the rear. Plus there is an understanding that the windows in entirety are to be cleaned monthly, which is cause for ongoing consent whilst this agreement is in force! Will he be just as forgiving if he was on vacation and failed to mention a break in service and you turn up and clean the windows. Hes on vacation and fails to check emails etc, comes home to a bill for cleaning windows,,,,,what will he trump up then???
As regards big intimidating chaps asking why you are parked outside his house, man up,,,,,regardless if they are serious about security and whatnot!!! Esp if in a signed vehicle, but regardless, a gentle reminder that paying road tax is legal reason to park wherever on the public road in a safe manner. On that point as well,,,,when parking, it is ilegal to park in such a manner to prevent a motorised vehicle from leaving the private drive. However, it is not an offense to park in a manner which prevents a motorised vehicle from parking on said driveway! Obviously not applied to driveways where emergency vehicles need access to etc.
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I used to find it funny when i was traditional window cleaning, when people would, when wanting a quote if they saw me in street, ask "are u a window cleaner?" Im stood there with all my gear and bucket on belt, unger ergotec pouches on, bucket and ladders. I used to say, "No im just attempting to break in,,,,,,or, no im the plumber!!!"
Or likewise as some have mentioned, ones have said that i havent cleaned because the gate was locked, so how coulx i do backs!!!!!! Hellooooo people, a window cleaner with a ladder,,,,,its not rocket science, obviously i would explain it in a more civil and business like manner. But ultimately the point is made that i was hired to clean the windows on a monthly basis and unless im told otherwise i will complete that arrangement. On the understanding that a locked gate does not present a problem in preventing this, unless told otherwise. In this instance, it wasnt agreed or weve not been told it was agreed, that the solicitor would be pre notified and the gate is not actually bolted in the first place!
Even if he was notified and on this occasion was not, for whatever reason, it doesnt present itself justification to be ranting tresspassing. Tresspassing is going onto private property without concent. That would include the front, side and rear of the property, not just the rear. Plus there is an understanding that the windows in entirety are to be cleaned monthly, which is cause for ongoing consent whilst this agreement is in force! Will he be just as forgiving if he was on vacation and failed to mention a break in service and you turn up and clean the windows. Hes on vacation and fails to check emails etc, comes home to a bill for cleaning windows,,,,,what will he trump up then???
As regards big intimidating chaps asking why you are parked outside his house, man up,,,,,regardless if they are serious about security and whatnot!!! Esp if in a signed vehicle, but regardless, a gentle reminder that paying road tax is legal reason to park wherever on the public road in a safe manner. On that point as well,,,,when parking, it is ilegal to park in such a manner to prevent a motorised vehicle from leaving the private drive. However, it is not an offense to park in a manner which prevents a motorised vehicle from parking on said driveway! Obviously not applied to driveways where emergency vehicles need access to etc.
Stella, ya can't whack it !!! Have another can and then give us some more, its still not sinking in yet, but you're coming close !!!
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Have you read it properley Ross ? He's been notifying him, then didn't ? I agree with what you say. But how do you change from notifying to not notifying ? Don't say to me..."tell them", because he never. Have we got your full attention tonight ? !!! ;D
Yeahbutnobutyeahbut....
Windows cleaners access property to clean windows. It's not rare or unusual or strange.
That a text wasn't sent hardly makes it a (civil) crime.
The bloke isn't complaining about his windows being cleaned without the text being sent, he's complaining about opening an unlocked gate and trespass.
If his house was on fire, would he complain about trespass by the fire brigade? No, of course he wouldn't so his complaint isn't about trespass, it's him being a complete arrogant ignorant twatt as shown by what he wrote.
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Stella, ya can't whack it !!! Have another can and then give us some more, its still not sinking in yet, but you're coming close !!!
Do u want to clarify, what u mean by this
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What an utter tool.
I wouldn't even bother replying, or even spend another minute worrying about it.
Ignore him, write it off, and concentrate on customers who aren't more trouble than they're worth.
I can hardly believe you've even given it this much thought and energy. I've lost count of the number of mong customers I've come across, you have to just drop them and move on. There are no shortage of good custies.
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If he has not paid you I would turn up at his office and ask receptionist to ask him for money he owes you . If he refuses go through small claims procedure bet he wont want to face a judge and say he had to trespass to clean my windows that you have cleaned previously
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Beware of solicitors.
A farmer once met his solicitor neighbour as he came home from work.
Hi he says "You're a legal chap what do you think about this? If someone's dog gets through the fence and kills his neighbours prize Cockrel do you think he would be liable to pay him compensation?"
Well says the solicitor "Without knowing all the details it seems pretty straightforward I would say that he probably is liable"
The next day the solicitor finds a letter when he comes home. "Compensation claim from your neighbour for prize cockrel killed by your dog £200."
The next day the farmer finds a letter when he comes home. "Fee for legal advice regarding cockrel and dog incident £200!"
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Part of me wants to stop worrying about it and drop him, the other part wants to go back to his property and s**t in his kettle.
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Send a polite letter to his office stating why you think he is being unfair just address letter to him . His secetary will open and read it and then he will know 2 people thinks he is a dick head only he has to work with one then drop and move on
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please dont let these petty idiots get to you.drop him and move on.
luckily ive never encountered such a awkward customer. ::)roll
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I suppose the thing to do is set out the rules from day 1 with every customer.
I have a few where I do need to text because they need to be in or unlock a gate for access, others where I could climb over if they were not home. The latter I have always asked at the beginning if happy for me to do that ? 9/10 times its always been OK with them. Everyone is different and tbh this guy does seem like a bit of twat and just trying to flex a bit of superiority over you but at the end of the day it is his property and his decision. Up to you if you wish to play by his rules .
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How can you call them petty idiot’s beats me as some take trespass very seriously for one reason or another.
We live in a world of scumbags that given a chance will rob you blind so for some security of a home is high on their list.
Do they want people hopping over fences and/or gates and turning up unannounced when they are out when say they have already been broken into in the past? I think not somehow. ;D
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How can you call them petty idiot’s beats me as some take trespass very seriously for one reason or another.
We live in a world of scumbags that given a chance will rob you blind so for some security of a home is high on their list.
Do they want people hopping over fences and/or gates and turning up unannounced when they are out when say they have already been broken into in the past? I think not somehow. ;D
How can you not call them idiots, imagine what would happen if tried to take a window cleaner to court for opening your
back gate accessing you garden and cleaning your windows without causing damage.
The judge would recommend that you received help and then tell you to get out of the courtroom unless you want to get done for time wasting.
Now this is one muppet that I would take to the small claims if he refused to pay, just for the fun of it.
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probably dump him, but i;d want to know what he'd want you to do in the future. he's asked you to clean his windows regularly i presume. of course you need to go on his property to do this. if he has a problem wth that maybe he'd rather have a front only clean and clean his own back windows?
we give people a due date so they always know when to expect us so it wouldn't be a problem for us, but this customer just sounds like too much hassle.
i would ignore the trespass nonsense. he's just acting like a bully. i don't like bullies and personally would;t want to work with him again unless he apologised.
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I'm sure the op can make their own mind up what to do without our advice all the same.
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I'm sure the op can make his own mind up what to do without our advice anyway.
*Ahem* it would appear not ;)
Do I just demand payment tell him to do one or write it off?
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Anyway you still have provided a window cleaning service all be it the customer is a bit peeved for gaining access to the back of his property without his prior knowledge so present him with the bill all the same. Then if he refuses to pay for whatever reason take legal action is what I would do just for the fun of it as it seems to me he is trying it on with this trespass nonsense anyway as the gate was unlocked.
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@Clean Clear
You are joking I hope.
Not sure what makes you think i'm joking ? I'm not. I'm not going to go into the whole thing of pre notifying as its been done to death here. I do both, some i pre notify and some i don't. I know the pro's and cons from my side and the customers side, so we don't even have to go there.
Regards the OP, he has been pre notifying. In my experience, when i have turned up at a customers that i usually pre notify and i havn't this time, due to an error or some such...they have been most perplexed. I've had a phone call the same evening from customers i've never spoken to for years to ask me................."how did you get over"? And i've also a big aggresive guy come up to a co worker sitting in the passenger seat of my fully sign written van and ask him "you got a problem, what you want what you doing here" ? Until he seen my face, then he said.......never knew you where coming today Mike, i usually get a message? Bottom line is some people take their security seriously.
Notify, don't notify...........do what you like. But i'd be miffed if someone said they'll let me know when they're coming then turn up willy nilly without letting me know. The Solicitor is miffed, like most of my customers have been when i've done it. So thats my first hand experience. So no, i'm not joking. Mind you where i live they all have CCTV, Alarms, posts in the drive so you can't get the car out without un locking it etc..........
You may live in Camberwick Green with Windy Miller making flour and delivering eggs around the village and the postman going about his business in his little red van, and the window cleaner going about his business from house to house, some of us live in the 21st Century.
I wish ...
I live in Bristol on what is predominantly a "council" estate.
Oh and I have threatened a solicitor with small claims and an implied threat about contacting the Law Society due to tardy payment. He settled the bill (about £500).
In this case, on the assumption that the bill is about £30 or less I would just walk away; but I like the idea of sending a letter to him at his law firm for his secretary to read. If he moaned I'd say I didn't want the postman trespassing on his land to deliver a letter on my behalf. ;D
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He should pay up as cleaning is one issue and entering the property is another. When I agree to clean I take it as then giving consenting to enter their property. I had one who felt I should let then know each time. I said I did by means of an invoice. That was the last clean. I will not clean for anyone thinking they have some issue with entry. Sounds like some solicitor thinking he is a big deal. I would hate to solicit for business. The tart.
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He needs a very simple letter that says one thing and one thing only.
"We had an agreed contract that I would clean your windows every X weeks and you would pay me £Y. I have cleaned your windows, so please pay the outstanding sum."
Don't allow him to link the "trespass" with the fact that he owes you money. It's irrelevant. He owes you the cash.
If he replies with another comment about the "trespass" I'd write him a letter saying the same but adding "Your (unfounded) allegation that I trespassed is immaterial to the fact that you have not paid. I have fulfilled my side of our contract. If you wish, feel free to sue me for trespass. In the meantime, please pay the monies owed".
That said, I'd invest no more time on it. Life's short enough anyway.
Vin
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Bloody ambulance chaser.
"I am deeply concerned and disappointed by the way you gained access to my property without notice or my consent. Irrespective of there being “no padlock,” you are professionals and one does not expect a firm of your quality to be acting in such a fashion.
Oh get over yourself you bloody drama queen. ::)roll
I’m terribly sorry Tom but this incident is worrying and even more shocking if is this your firm’s standard practice. With respect, it amounts to trespass.
Ah so that's why the neighbours call you Nervous Nerys?
I don’t want to argue over such a nominal amount, but the situation is not satisfactory as it currently stands, and I therefore hope an amicable solution can be agreed.
Sounds to me like you expect some form of recompense?
Jog on ya bloody leach.
I really do not want this to tarnish what high regard I had for your firm."
You're off the books now and I certainly won't lose any sleep over it. Next!
Send him a reply text or email.
And don't forget to include the bits in Red. ;D
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Bloody ambulance chaser.
"I am deeply concerned and disappointed by the way you gained access to my property without notice or my consent. Irrespective of there being “no padlock,” you are professionals and one does not expect a firm of your quality to be acting in such a fashion.
I’m terribly sorry Tom but this incident is worrying and even more shocking if is this your firm’s standard practice. With respect, it amounts to trespass.
I don’t want to argue over such a nominal amount, but the situation is not satisfactory as it currently stands, and I therefore hope an amicable solution can be agreed.
I really do not want this to tarnish what high regard I had for your firm."
Dear Mr bloody ambulance chaser
Thank you for explaining your feelings and concerns.
I can only apologize that on this occasion I had not contacted you prior to cleaning your windows.
This was an oversight on my part and in order to keep to schedule your windows were cleaned all the same.
Now you have made your feelings felt I will ensure this does not happen again.
I trust you'll find this an amicable solution , please pay the outstanding amount and you can look forward to our professional service in a months time.
Regards Tom.
Simples :D
Oh yeah
Don't ever call back again ;D
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A letter to the lawman. ;D
Dear Sir,
I am very disappointed you hold my firm in high regard and believe me to be professional; I am not. I am a window cleaner you supercilious fool. Window cleaners typically "tip up" at their customers "gaffs", clean their windows to a good standard and expect to be paid promptly.
Window cleaners do not wish to be held in high esteem and do not care whether their customers get their panties in a bunch because they have walked onto a customers property at the previously agreed schedule.
If I had pee'd on your roses or taken a dump over your drain I could understand you getting upset. If I had happily entered your back garden and caught you sunbathing in skimpy clothing I could understand some slight embarrassment all round but nothing that couldn't be humorously dealt with by all parties.
If I had shown up at your lounge window and seen the risque stuff you were watching on your computer or disturbed you in an act of intimacy with your dearly beloved wife then maybe you would have a point; but I knocked the front door and rightly guessed you were not at home so cleaned your windows. How shocking for you. Go and lie down with an ice pack on your head and don't forget to make a whiplash claim.
Now pay up you miserable tight-assed little QC or I will report you to the Law Society for bringing your profession into disrepute by your treating a minion like me so badly that I feel a PTSD claim coming on.
Your obedient servant,
Windy Washer to the gentry.
;D ;D ;D
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I had one years ago. She was ok at first , then one day I went round the back to climb over the gate, which was only 3-4 feet high. She went ballistic at me and told me never to go round the back if she was out.
I did better. I never went back.
John
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Don't let the job title and well worded email fool or intimidate you. He is peeing on you in typical ambulance chaser fashion. For what reason - who knows - money - freebie - or just because he's an arse. Trespass is a civil offence. He could attempt to per sue a claim at no cost to him self, but the claim would have very little value. It sounds to me that you have a bully on your hands.
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Just bin him and move on.