Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Smurf on March 05, 2016, 10:13:03 am
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Found this link that you may find interesting as someone has deliberately gone out of their way to try educate people what products to use when softwashing buildings. http://www.benzsoftwash.biz/
I don't think the chap at Benz https://www.benzsoftwash.com is going to be very happy when he finds out do you?
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Soft washing is going to be big this year and looks like the war has begun
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Indeed Mark...
I don't get involved in roofs but this looks a quick way to brush moss off roof tiles before applying algopro ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-PW9tS1MuU
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I see the chap from Benz has already found out and he is not a happy bunny... just scroll down the page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Algoclear/149192895272293#!/pages/Algoclear/149192895272293
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I just spoke to Cormac and apparently it is a old post from algo clear I wont go into any details but I don't think I will be putting them next to each other at my show ;D ;D
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Hi Smurf, i am also from Cork and have given up trying to warn guys about the use of sodium hypochlorite, and also on the use of cleaning chemicals based on sodium hydroxide these warnings were based on my own experiences from using such harsh and aggressive chemicals over many years myself. I have even said on some of my posts that i am sure guys are sick of me harping on about the use of harsh and aggressive cleaning chemicals and the detrimental damage they will cause to many different types of surfaces.
I have thought for a long time now that the cleaning industry is indeed a very dirty industry and i blame the manufacturers big and small of cleaning chemicals who produce products many of which are caustic corrosive and toxic but really do they care i think not. I believed their sales and marketing crap for many years and listened to plenty of bullpoop over them years. I eventually copped on and gave up supporting them and now only support producers who do really care. and thankfully there are more and more janitorial suppliers across Ireland and the UK who are now promoting safe and effective alternatives when it comes to cleaning all types of surfaces.
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I just spoke to Cormac and apparently it is a old post from algo clear I wont go into any details but I don't think I will be putting them next to each other at my show ;D ;D
I don't think it would go down too well if you did...Pistols at dawn and all that ;D
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Mark, I hope you did not invite http://www.softwashing.uk too as all hell would break out methinks ;D
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Hi Smurf, i am also from Cork and have given up trying to warn guys about the use of sodium hypochlorite, and also on the use of cleaning chemicals based on sodium hydroxide these warnings were based on my own experiences from using such harsh and aggressive chemicals over many years myself. I have even said on some of my posts that i am sure guys are sick of me harping on about the use of harsh and aggressive cleaning chemicals and the detrimental damage they will cause to many different types of surfaces.
I have thought for a long time now that the cleaning industry is indeed a very dirty industry and i blame the manufacturers big and small of cleaning chemicals who produce products many of which are caustic corrosive and toxic but really do they care i think not. I believed their sales and marketing crap for many years and listened to plenty of bullpoop over them years. I eventually copped on and gave up supporting them and now only support producers who do really care. and thankfully there are more and more janitorial suppliers across Ireland and the UK who are now promoting safe and effective alternatives when it comes to cleaning all types of surfaces.
I think may cleaners including myself are now looking into, want to use or now use alternatives to harsh cleaning chemicals.
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Interesting. Can Algoclear be pumped through a backpack through a normal wfp with fan jets? Can it be used on Limewash? Do you need a small waffle cloth?
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No I don't think a backpack would be any good as you need a good flow rate and bar pressure to saturate the walls apparently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AT5vsaGyRk
I'm also after a cheaper way to get into this too as decent kit seems very expensive to buy.
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I have a pressure washer and a lance - I reckon that's a fair few gallons required to do the side of a house though.
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Good thread smurf - is that mr snott on the algo pro page ??
I personally don't like these "everyone else is wrong" style campaigns - it never works out for any party, esp. As you can buy an algo clear equivalent for pennies compared to their "branded" version.
Quats/ammonium also has risks and hazards if used carelessly so it's almost a kettle and pot situation.
Yes the softwashing is gaining great popularity at the moment, driven in part by lots of bad operators ( of the travelling variety ) who wreck roofs and repaint with the wrong stuff etc...
Give it a year or two when they cotton on to the phrase "soft wash" and use the "six months to take effect clause" to just spray soapy water over the roof and run - leaving the home owner wondering why the moss is still growing, then softwashing will appear on watch dog and the whole process becomes tainted and perceived as rubbish.
Darran
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I've applied it via a backpack Dave - goes on really well as does hypo ;D
People making these machines love us to spend a fortune you know !!!
Of course it's a bit slower with a back pack, I also use "X-jet" a chem pick up that delivers chems from the pw at low pressure ;D
Darran
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Why is a new approach be a war. Sensationalizing is just a lot of crap. Really@## its not new its been done before if you were well informed. Is from Yorkshire by any chance.
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I was thinking of getting this a while back but the price put me off somewhat :o https://www.softwashtechnology.co.uk/collections/softwash-systems/products/softwash-systems-honda-gx120-bowser-unit-comet-acid-pump
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I must be missing something, it's a baby pw/ with a tank and frame £600 at the most retail. Surely a man of your skills could cobble something together in a few hours ?
Darran
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Why is a new approach be a war. Sensationalizing is just a lot of crap. Really@##
The debate has been going on a while but for someone to go out of their way to create a website with a similar name as a supplier to deliberately discredit that company takes some beating methinks. ;D
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I must be missing something, it's a baby pw/ with a tank and frame £600 at the most retail. Surely a man of your skills could cobble something together in a few hours ?
Darran
Indeed you could...The type of delivery pump used is the most important thing on that setup. https://www.softwashtechnology.co.uk/collections/pumps/products/comet-mc18-viton-diaphragm-pump
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In theory ye ...... Am thinking as am writing so be with me
I see Ben ( I think ) had some 12v pumps on his site that are capable on 12-15lpm, if you have another tank in the van and set pump up same way we wfp would this not give us what we need, maybe using wider hose, pole hose and bigger jets.
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So with that pump in smurfs link straight from a tank.
Sound like a plan that.
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So with that pump in smurfs link straight from a tank.
Sound like a plan that.
If you mean that pump link on its own I posted still needs to be driven by a petrol or electric motor then it will draw from either a tank or containers
Ben also sell the portable versions without the barrow tank https://www.softwashtechnology.co.uk/collections/softwash-systems
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In theory ye ...... Am thinking as am writing so be with me
I see Ben ( I think ) had some 12v pumps on his site that are capable on 12-15lpm, if you have another tank in the van and set pump up same way we wfp would this not give us what we need, maybe using wider hose, pole hose and bigger jets.
This is probably the 12v type pump you were thinking of Matty https://www.softwashtechnology.co.uk/collections/pumps/products/flojet-triplex-high-flow-r3521134a-pump-12v-4-8-bar-15-1-lpm
Still best you don't go sticking hypo through it methinks
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should be fine with hypo - hence the viton seals but a quick rinse through would keep it tip top, and is good practice.
1 pump £90
1 100 litre tank £45
1 trolley £50
1 battery £50 ( or £5 from scrappy or zero is sourced from Liverpool 😂 )
Hose and some odds and ends £30
Bingo, system £270 odd quid 👍
Darran
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Interesting post. Can someone educate me though...
Here in Wales the go-to method for the householder wanting to clean the green algae off their house is sodium hypochlorite diluted at around 4 to 1 with tapwater. Application? Usually via a garden pump sprayer (not as a mist, but as a "drench"), left 5 mins then rinsed off with the garden hose. Indeed i've used this method myself, suitably kitted our in farmers' waterproofs (like Flexothane) and goggles.
1. Is this a dangerous way to apply SH?
2. Should SH be avoided at all costs?
3. What is the alternative chemical?
4. How is said alternative to be applied?
I don't offer softwashing and have no plans to, but good to know not least for myself.
Cheers.
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should be fine with hypo - hence the viton seals but a quick rinse through would keep it tip top, and is good practice.
1 pump £90
1 100 litre tank £45
1 trolley £50
1 battery £50 ( or £5 from scrappy or zero is sourced from Liverpool 😂 )
Hose and some odds and ends £30
Bingo, system £270 odd quid 👍
Darran
I like it but let's be honest if sourced from Liverpool u could prob have the lot off someone for £50.
But ye I think with any chemicals as long as u put water through it afterwards it will be ok .....
I have ran out of room in me van for now, during the summer sometime am guna fit me hose reel I got off Ben an set another tank up for soft wash or chemical application al get one of those 12v pump off him ( I didn't know that pump had to run off motor smurf ) and away it will go, I was going to do this with a normal shurflo pump and just have it for chemicals but be a bit of a waste of time knowing I can be ahead of the game for once :D and go full 12lpm
A few connectors and it would run into me high pressure hose and out the lance again a good flow of water afterwards should be ok
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You might not have seen another post by algo clear smurf
http://www.softwashsolutions.biz/
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Interesting post. Can someone educate me though...
Here in Wales the go-to method for the householder wanting to clean the green algae off their house is sodium hypochlorite diluted at around 4 to 1 with tapwater. Application? Usually via a garden pump sprayer (not as a mist, but as a "drench"), left 5 mins then rinsed off with the garden hose. Indeed i've used this method myself, suitably kitted our in farmers' waterproofs (like Flexothane) and goggles.
1. Is this a dangerous way to apply SH?
2. Should SH be avoided at all costs?
3. What is the alternative chemical?
4. How is said alternative to be applied?
I don't offer softwashing and have no plans to, but good to know not least for myself.
Cheers.
I'm no expert Carl, so this is only my point of view. I've used SH in combination with jetwashing and i've used it standalone as a swill like what you're describing to clean the pavement in the front of my house and my yard......................
Regards to what you say above, yes its important to keep it off your clothes or it will rot them. And it should go without saying here that yes, you should not get it in your eyes. It will damage plants, fish etc so should be avoided near them.
That said lets remember three things................
(1) Its stored in black containers as exposure to sunlight degrades it and breaks it down, rendering it ineffective.
(2) Its stored, and required to be stored airtight so it does not "evaporate", as that also breaks it down and renders it innefective.
(3) its used as a shock treatment in swimming pools as an alternative to emptying the pool to clean it.
My question to you would be....why are you rinsing it off ? Just leave it, it will dry out and become negative. Its not acid.
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should be fine with hypo - hence the viton seals but a quick rinse through would keep it tip top, and is good practice.
1 pump £90
1 100 litre tank £45
1 trolley £50
1 battery £50 ( or £5 from scrappy or zero is sourced from Liverpool 😂 )
Hose and some odds and ends £30
Bingo, system £270 odd quid 👍
Darran
I like it but let's be honest if sourced from Liverpool u could prob have the lot off someone for £50.
I'm in Liverpool, give me the heads up where you get that amount of gear for £50 ?
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there is lots of products out there which do a great job and not always hypo , and to be honest a normal trolley will do a great job if applied correctly I had a shurflo pump which has been abused for a year plus now with hypo and still working fine
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Nice, what was it like before?
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it's good to see some reasonable and educated responses - try talking hypo on the general cleaning thread and you low and behold your the next Jimmy savill or Adam Johnson....
I use a long lance for render work just to minimalise the distance of travel, I've also used a pump sprayer and worked off a ladder. I do rinse down mainly to get an even finish.
Darran
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You might not have seen another post by algo clear smurf
http://www.softwashsolutions.biz/
Talk about a man on a mission or what :o
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My question to you would be....why are you rinsing it off ? Just leave it, it will dry out and become negative. Its not acid.
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As with a lot of things, that was the received wisdom. My neighbour showed me what he did and I copied :-\
I would like to know if (given normal safety rules about overspray, PSE, aquatic organisms, rug rats etc) it is safe to use. I've used it on my house the last 7 years with no adverse effects on the Weathershield; but what about effects on me, the operator. I have gone gray since I started, but i'm putting that down to a mix of "Not today, it's going to rain" and late payers....
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While bleach is toxic in its strongest forms it poses little threat to humans, short term if ingested will cause upset stomach, stinging to eyes A solution containing less than 10% bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is not regarded as toxic and can be safely ingested ( :-X ) stronger solutions will cause skin irritations and buring of the mouth and throat. No long health threats no cancer causing properties.
HOWEVER
if mixed with ammonia or other acids/acidic items you get a strong chemical reaction, namely chorine gas - highly dangerous stuff - also don't pee in it!!
SUMMARY
used by itself with care it poses little threat other than your clothing and pond life ( which is pretty fragile to just about everything even soap ) I've sprayed in on various plants in the garden to test it - at worst some leaves go white, shrivel up and die, but not lost any plants as its not systemic - grass only seems effected in strong doses and I've only killed that using 15% strength neat - even then it's grown back six months later
Darran
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Cheers Smudged!
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While bleach is toxic in its strongest forms it poses little threat to humans, short term if ingested will cause upset stomach, stinging to eyes A solution containing less than 10% bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is not regarded as toxic and can be safely ingested ( :-X ) stronger solutions will cause skin irritations and buring of the mouth and throat. No long health threats no cancer causing properties.
HOWEVER
if mixed with ammonia or other acids/acidic items you get a strong chemical reaction, namely chorine gas - highly dangerous stuff - also don't pee in it!!
SUMMERY
used by itself with care it poses little threat other than your clothing and pond life ( which is pretty fragile to just about everything even soap ) I've sprayed in on various plants in the garden to test it - at worst some leaves go white, shrivel up and die, but not lost any plants as its not systemic - grass only seems effected in strong doses and I've only killed that using 15% strength neat - even then it's grown back six months later
Darran
They say hypo can be quite corrosive and damage/degrade certain types of metal, rubber seals etc and stain/etch glass. Therefore I’m just wondering if you have had any first hand experienced of this happening smudger?
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Yes hypo does attack some metals ( mild steel defo ) but not stainless steel.
I have sprayed it on lead flashing without any problems, but I do rinse down as soon as it's done its job so not left on long term, with mild steel a fitting I use on the X jet has gone rusty very quickly ( over 3 to 4 months ) but this was perminatly sitting in water/hypo mix in a bucket.
Bear in mind bleach is used daily in kitchens and bathrooms everyday I've never seen had glass damaged or upvc frames or rubber seals
For ref: I'd use it at the job you posted on the other section - tarp the grass area and all will be fine algo clear will cause as much if not more harm to the water than the hypo
Darran
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Yes hypo does attack some metals ( mild steel defo ) but not stainless steel.
I have sprayed it on lead flashing without any problems, but I do rinse down as soon as it's done its job so not left on long term, with mild steel a fitting I use on the X jet has gone rusty very quickly ( over 3 to 4 months ) but this was perminatly sitting in water/hypo mix in a bucket.
Bear in mind bleach is used daily in kitchens and bathrooms everyday I've never seen had glass damaged or upvc frames or rubber seals
For ref: I'd use it at the job you posted on the other section - tarp the grass area and all will be fine algo clear will cause as much if not more harm to the water than the hypo
Darran
On that job in the other post I'm more concerned with using hypo with the overspray/run- off causing damage/degrading the zinc roof and roof line smudger.
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An experiment has been conducted for hypo and stainless at 15% 304 stainless showed signs of rust/corrosion after 8 weeks of contact. 316 stainless no effect.
Also found hypo experiment on plants where they were misted with a solution (20% hypo) for 4 weeks only one type of plant died - another was in poor condition while the other 5 had no adverse effects.
This was done to see if algae removal in commercial greenhouses using hypo spray would damage the plants growing inside - apparently not !
I'm not a chemist, and I'm not saying it's safe to spray around without regard to people and your surroundings but algoclear (ammonia whatever) has issues too, burns the skin, kills pond life etc..
Darran
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Tricky one - like most things not all zinc is equal ! Zinc itself is soft and oxidation happens easily, however this may, not may not be the same thing we used to plate metal components with zinc passervate and years back car manufacturers introduced this into car and van panels to protect the metal surface and stop rust, if your roof is this then I see no problem.
Personally I'd do a test use some plastercine or modelling clay to make a 1 inch circle place some hypo in it for 30 minutes neutralise with water clean dry and see if you get any colour change/stain
Post your results on here
Darran
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Good idea smudger.
However that would mean I would have to get hold of the same materials used on that roof and roof line which might be a bit difficult to get hold of.
If I can get assurances from the likes of Algoclear pro that their product is safe to use on that type of roof then that will be good enough for me. Rather than buggering about and/or worrying about what damage hypo may cause.
Not only that the big selling point for me and no doubt the client when I hit him with a silly high price is Algoclear pro is approved to be used on K-rend so will not invalidate their property K-rend guarantee.
I know it all might be smoke and mirrors to some and there are other product similar I could use but at the end of the day I want to be able to clean the outside of the building as safely as I can without any detrimental affect to the building surfaces.
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Fair enough it sounds like you going down the I will do the job right at the right price or get someone else to mess about for less.
Let's get back to building this machine, and sort the chemicals out later on ;D
There's a little 125L tank in rossendale am not sure how far it is from you on eBay it's on less than a tenner, this with 15 lpm 12v pump into hose reel to say, using normal garden hose on reel with some kind of rectus type fitting, into 8ml pole hose using an old donkey ( brodex pole ) with 4 jets not 2.
Am not sure if 4 fan, 4 pencil or a mix would be best
Are we some what at were we need to be as far as set up goes, I know you says you will use a controller but is it better to Maybe have a trigger or an inline tap to control flow and turn off, if ur just wanting to agitate a set area.
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can't pressure washer be used ???
What's Hypo like ? Ever been tempted to wash down a conservatory roof with it or add a few ml to your tank?
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can't pressure washer be used ???
What's Hypo like ? Ever been tempted to wash down a conservatory roof with it or add a few ml to your tank?
Problem with the pressure washer Dave is it mists and atomises everywhere, pretty sure you'd get it everywhere you didn't want. I've never used it on a roof nor ii my tank. I have ran it through hoses though to clean them. Just think Extra Strong Bleach and you're on the right track, thats all it is.
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can't pressure washer be used ???
What's Hypo like ? Ever been tempted to wash down a conservatory roof with it or add a few ml to your tank?
You could use a cold washer but is not ideal as can damage the render if not careful. Not only that it's quite ineffective from my own experience as you need to use something to kill the algae spores not blast them deeper into the substrate. The only suitable type washer to use would be a doff type system (superheated water) that the likes of rhino man and other use for K-rend cleaning. It's a variable low flow system that due to the extremely high temps it can be set on will kill moss, algae etc.
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Ah, right. It's something I know absolutely nothing about (obviously) cheers.
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Ah, right. It's something I know absolutely nothing about (obviously) cheers.
bit like your window cleaning ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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can't pressure washer be used ???
What's Hypo like ? Ever been tempted to wash down a conservatory roof with it or add a few ml to your tank?
Hypo isn't any good on glass Dave I tried it recently an I wouldn't use it on plastic frames ever, won't do your tank any harm a few ml, I just wouldn't run it threw the di vessels.
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Fair enough it sounds like you going down the I will do the job right at the right price or get someone else to mess about for less.
Let's get back to building this machine, and sort the chemicals out later on ;D
There's a little 125L tank in rossendale am not sure how far it is from you on eBay it's on less than a tenner, this with 15 lpm 12v pump into hose reel to say, using normal garden hose on reel with some kind of rectus type fitting, into 8ml pole hose using an old donkey ( brodex pole ) with 4 jets not 2.
Am not sure if 4 fan, 4 pencil or a mix would be best
Are we some what at were we need to be as far as set up goes, I know you says you will use a controller but is it better to Maybe have a trigger or an inline tap to control flow and turn off, if ur just wanting to agitate a set area.
Nope Matty I'v decided I'm going to drop that job after reading this as seems more hassle than it's worth unless soneone has a better idea http://www.roofclean.co.uk/pdf/AlgoClear-Pro-Safety-Datasheet-2014.pdf
10.5. Incompatible materials
Materials to avoid: Soft metals (aluminium, zinc etc.) Strong acids.
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So you would say it has as many problems as the much hated hypo then ??
Darran
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So you would say it has as many problems as the much hated hypo then ??
Darran
Looks that way smudger but at least you can wash down hypo off surfaces thoroughly and get instant results I suppose ;D
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;D
Just remember to wear the condom suit !!
Darran
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Indeed... :)
I reckon one 20 ltr container of 14-15% hypo diluted down to 4 parts water 1 part hypo should do all the walls on that building used sparingly... Yehaa! ;D