Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ashley Brothwood on January 13, 2014, 05:31:16 pm
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Hi
Does anyone do mould reports?
I went to one the other day for a friend who is trying to be charged by her landlord for causing mould.
To me it was obvious that there was mould on the ceiling in one of the bedrooms. It ran the full width of the house and came out about 20cm from the wall. I looked up in the loft and about 20cm from the edge of the house there was insulation missing the full width of the house where the mould was. You could even see on the ceiling breaks in the mould where there is the ceiling beams preventing any moisture coming through the ceiling and causing the mould.
The landlady is having none of it and still insists its the tentants fault. This happened when they moved in they cleaned it and it came back.
Does anyone else agree and think this could be one of the main problems I know it's hard to guess without seeing it but with the information above what do you think
Thanks
Ashley
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So how would that be the tenants fault ? Mould can be from damp which in this case would be the warm humid air inside condensing on the cold strip where the insulation is missing. I've done a couple this year - one was under a flat balcony and the other a hydroponics fan ;) I have seen mould caused by tenants using a calor gas fire without adequate ventilation. Speak to enviromental health about the matter who will speak to the landlord about their obligations. Clean the area with bleach to kill the spores - rams and ppe
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Sounds like a job for a structural type.
One thing is for sure, many new builds suffer with mould, especially those having suffered from bad weather during construction.
Tenants can and do contribute but from what you have said it is highly unlikely that this is the case here, especially if it is a recurring problem.
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I used to do damp surveys. Its a specialist field and you need professional liability insurance as you can easily end up in court. Have a look at the ISSE website and they can recommend specialist surveyors. Its a minefield so unless you have certified training I would be very cautious about offering a diagnosis especially in writing.
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I would get the tenant to counter claim against the Landlord it will then be up to them to prove it with a report.
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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Hi
Yes I thought it would be the landlord as you can see the mould in the one room and no where else only where the insulation is missing.
I did say to them I could clean it, I usually use bleach to start and then ulv the whole house after with formula 429.
I think the landlord is just one of those stubern people that will want to get as much money out of them as they can. I'm just waiting to here back off the tenant so I can meet the landlady there to show her exactly what the problem is and why at the very lest the Insulation needs sorting out before anything else or else the next set of tenants will end up having the exactly same problem
Thanks for all your input
Ashley
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As I have mentioned, this is a minefield. How mould occurs is that moisture is generated during the day by the occupants of the property showering, cooking, drying clothes on radiators. During the day when the air is warm, there is no problem as the air can easily absorb the additional moisture. But during the night, as the air cools, the moisture migrates to the coldest surface in the property which is usually an unused room which tends to be unheated. As you say, it will also condense onto areas where insulation is missing or defective.
Deciding who is to blame is very hard to do and I have seen these cases end up in court.
I would never use bleach on any restoration or clean up job. There are far better and safer products to use including the one you mentioned, Formula 429.
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John Kelly is correct.
Unless you are trained, competent and well insured don't touch mould.
Landlords are responsible for properties to be fit for purpose and have a duty of care under common law that the tenant’s health should not be affected.
Visible mould growth in a building makes it unfit for human occupation, under environmental law, mould growth is considered a class one health hazard similar to asbestos exposure.
There are over 100’000 types of mould, 32 two are thought to be serious health hazards, some are known carcinogenic, but all types can cause asthma and or allergies.
We will be offering specialist mould training this year.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Yes I have looked Into it and would like to offer it as a full service. Currently I only do one every so often and not on a large scale. This was more for a friend and you could clearly see what the problem was
Keep me posted about the training as I might be interested in it later on in the year
Thanks
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
There is money in this but without training it is a real minefield. in the USA it is a multi billion dollar a year industry.
I was asked to look at a social club recently that had be used as a cannabis farm and therefore had mould present.
The insurers instructed a builder to carry out some work as they thought there was about £40k worth of building repairs required, the builder started to worry about his legal liabilities on this job and therefore instructed us to carry out a full survey.
Well to keep this short.... we found mould in the voids, asbestos etc, once I applied the LEGAL and correct decontamination specification required, it became much more expensive as its very involved and MUST be carried out correctly.
Steve
Training Instructor
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Registered Health and Safety Technical Practitioner:- Tech IOSH... What is this qualification?
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Yes when I looked Into it abit I found a lot of information mainly from the USA.
I think until its pulicly known how bad mould can be it won't fully take off much the same way aspestos has even though mould is just as bad.
I look forward to hearing off you in the future about any training
Thanks
Ashley
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Chris, IOSH is the Institution of Occupational Safety & Health the only Chartered health and safety body.
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Who is it "recognised" by ...HSE?
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Hi Chris
I hold a NEBOSH General Certificate and therefore a registered member of IOSH, the leading Health and Safety Body for the UK. I also have trainer qualifications with IOSH and CIEH.
I started cleaning carpets over twenty years ago and built a fire and flood business up to a £500’000. a year turnover.
I am trainer recognised by:
IOSH
CIEH
IICRC
IOSH qualifications are recognised by our Law Courts, our government, the HSE and British industry.
I am now busy studying for a Health and Safety Degree and we are setting up: The Restoration Academy (TRA).
The Restoration Academy will provide advanced training in cleaning, restoration, Health and Safety.
We will be training Technicians and Loss Adjusters.
Steve
Training Instructor
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Sorry you lost me with all the letters. ???
The Restoration Academy (TRA) is that like The building cleaning acadamy ?
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What about the Academy of Crime Scene Cleaners with some worthless certificate from some Welsh governing body that nobody has heard of. I was also in the National Association of Drainage Contractors, only worked out at 70p a day - bargain :'(
I've got a HNC in mining mechanical engineering which is again a waste of paper - how many cleaners actually have a worthwhile qualification in what we do ? I have nothing except experience that means anything. I managed years as an engineer without anyone asking to see any proof I was qualified. I hold an ACU technical examiners qualification ;) Again means nowt CEBOSH ISSOH and all the rest means nowt unless you happen to be in the lodge that have heard of them. Much as it grits me I can see Chris's point
Here comes the high horse brigade with the degree in bovine excrement ;D
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With respect when working in certain industries training and certification is required. Fire & flood restoration being one of them. There are people without who will do some work in this field, carpet cleaners often get asked. However if you want to run a serious business and recieve work from the principle providors such as the large loss adjusters then you need to be qualified.
Non of it means jot until something goes wrong. I have been involved in court cases where I have seen grown men cry when being cross examined by health & safety inspectors and lawyers, many of them ex military officers.
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If i pull the trigger , I am responsible....belonging to the local gun club will not get me off.
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The point I was making is that there is no real governing body - there are trainers offering training with no real qualification. I know what I'm doing most of the time and also know when I'm out of my depth. I have to clean a utility block on a Gypsy camp on Tuesday that someone kept a horse in - do I need specific training and who do I turn to for RAMS.
Did a mold clean recently for a landlord as specified by the local EO - he wanted the black removed with bleach. I offered no opinion as to the cause
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I respect the qualifications and am aware they can be relevant. I also embrace training and offer Hard Floor Courses myself through Marblelife Ltd. I also ensure all my guys have everything relevant such as IPAF, HSE, Forklift etc etc
When it comes to it at the end of the day everything is down to the governing body and that usually involves taking your money and little else.
I have done basic. Intermediate and advanced courses in Floor Restoration, I have done the Hard Floor, WRT and the ASD courses with the IIRC. I have done the British Slip Testing Course with a Pendulum etc
I am with Carl on this though training is very important but Experience is what cuts it. Most of the governing bodies are a joke and just want an annual fee.
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
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You can't beat experience, tops evrything but does not negate the need for training and the documentation to prove it. Especially important for employed staff.
Its called "arse covering".
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You can't beat experience, tops evrything but does not negate the need for training and the documentation to prove it. Especially important for employed staff.
Its called "arse covering".
Totally agree with that John and I make sure every employee does every course they are required to do and gain the necessary qualifications. My point is why do you then have to pay SOME governing bodies every year to keep the qualification! I passed my Driving Test 39 Years ago but the DVLA don't demand I do a test every year and moreover pay for it. So why do the IIRC demand payment every year for 3 courses that I have completed and the other 8 courses my guys have completed? I paid for the courses and the exams at the time so why do they think they deserve a payment every year for what is essentially a useless piece of paper?
Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd