Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: keyser soze on January 06, 2013, 11:40:21 pm
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i know most guys on this site prefer the gardiner range of poles and the phoenix looks a pretty good choice for some, but hardly anyone raves about the ionic range , what would the reason be for that? . i had a grafter plus which i didnt like but the glyder looks ok . but never gets a mention .. any thoughts .. btw i'm a gardiner man myself after great advice from all the gods on here..
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For me its about the weight of the pole! and gardener poles are the lightest on the market!
Unless someone can tell me different ???
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i know most guys on this site prefer the gardiner range of poles and the phoenix looks a pretty good choice for some, but hardly anyone raves about the ionic range , what would the reason be for that? . i had a grafter plus which i didnt like but the glyder looks ok . but never gets a mention .. any thoughts .. btw i'm a gardiner man myself after great advice from all the gods on here..
What size is the grafter ???
You looking to sell ???
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it was a 32 ft but i reduced it to a 18 ft and now use it mainly for single storey windows .it does the job , its worn to much for me to sell it. i wouldn't be happy to let anyone have it .. massive mprovement my 30ft slx has proven to be.. i love it
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All my poles are ionics i have yhe old ergolite 45 which is heavy as hell, the glyder and grafter plus they are all really well used and to be honest i do like them, but with the amount of raves about the Gardiner range i am looking into a possible change, another cleaner used to have just ionic poles but has since changed all tio Gardiner poles the only down side he mentions is that he findes the bristles on the gardiner brush head softer than the ionic as he perferred the ionic brush head. Not sure if thats correct or not
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The only 2 poles I have used is a fiberglass extel pole and an ioinics grafter 32 .
Ionics is a nice pole to use I use it all the time and fits in the back of my car easily .
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For me its about the weight of the pole! and gardener poles are the lightest on the market!
Unless someone can tell me different ???
Some of the facelift poles work out lighter than the gardiner poles
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For me its about the weight of the pole! and gardener poles are the lightest on the market!
Unless someone can tell me different ???
Some of the facelift poles work out lighter than the gardiner poles
Not the Xtremes they don't! no where close! ;)
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i didnt want it to be gardiner v phoenix again . just opinions on ionics poles tbh.... or doesnt anyone buy them these days
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Ionics = heavy and bendy but there customer service and systems are very good .
My clx is a revelation compared to my grafter .
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I only use Ionics.
The 'old' grafter is crap. Paint comes off after about a day.
The new one is much more like the rest of the range-more carbon than glass.
I actually ordered a new 17ft this afternoon.
The 30ft glyder is cracking once you araldyte the clamps on-the glue they use in the factory is crap.
After you get used to it-12 hours on the 45ft swift will hardly break a sweat.
There's no way round it though-the 80ft is heavy. And wrecks you. Not used any other brands at this height so can't compare.
Not an Ionic v Gardiner post but a lad here has just bought a Gardiner, we liked it-he was much quicker with it. Just waiting to see how it lasts.
It would have to be something pretty special to convert me from Ionic but time will tell.
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For me its about the weight of the pole! and gardener poles are the lightest on the market!
Unless someone can tell me different ???
Some of the facelift poles work out lighter than the gardiner poles
Not the Xtremes they don't! no where close! ;)
Did say some! Lol
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For me its about the weight of the pole! and gardener poles are the lightest on the market!
Unless someone can tell me different ???
Some of the facelift poles work out lighter than the gardiner poles
Not the Xtremes they don't! no where close! ;)
Did say some! Lol
Whilst the 'quoted weights' of some of the Facelift poles may seem lighter than the Gardiner poles in reality when placed on a scales next to each other they are not!
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For me its about the weight of the pole! and gardener poles are the lightest on the market!
Unless someone can tell me different ???
Some of the facelift poles work out lighter than the gardiner poles
Not the Xtremes they don't! no where close! ;)
Did say some! Lol
Whilst the 'quoted weights' of some of the Facelift poles may seem lighter than the Gardiner poles in reality when placed on a scales next to each other they are not!
So are you saying that they are lying on there weights of there poles?
Or are you putting wrong weights on your website??
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For me its about the weight of the pole! and gardener poles are the lightest on the market!
Unless someone can tell me different ???
Some of the facelift poles work out lighter than the gardiner poles
Not the Xtremes they don't! no where close! ;)
Did say some! Lol
Whilst the 'quoted weights' of some of the Facelift poles may seem lighter than the Gardiner poles in reality when placed on a scales next to each other they are not!
So are you saying that they are lying on there weights of there poles?
I am saying that their published weights do not match the weight of the actual poles being sent out. They may well not have gotten around to amending their published weights. I did notice that Stephen Fox in a recent post referred to one of his poles that has a published weight of just 1.3kg as being about 1.4kg so maybe he is aware of these discrepancies and has not gotten around to changing it yet with all of his re-sellers.
When this discussion was had a couple of months ago I noticed upon careful re-weighing of our pole range that a couple of our poles had inaccurately posted weights (mistakes can happen) so I immediately made changes so that the weights that customers look at are as accurate (manufacturing tolerances permitting) as can be. It did also work the other way that upon weighing and measuring our poles some of them were lighter and some were longer than previously published.
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For me its about the weight of the pole! and gardener poles are the lightest on the market!
Unless someone can tell me different ???
Some of the facelift poles work out lighter than the gardiner poles
Not the Xtremes they don't! no where close! ;)
Did say some! Lol
Whilst the 'quoted weights' of some of the Facelift poles may seem lighter than the Gardiner poles in reality when placed on a scales next to each other they are not!
So are you saying that they are lying on there weights of there poles?
I am saying that their published weights do not match the weight of the actual poles being sent out. They may well not have gotten around to amending their published weights. I did notice that Stephen Fox in a recent post referred to one of his poles that has a published weight of just 1.3kg as being about 1.4kg so maybe he is aware of these discrepancies and has not gotten around to changing it yet with all of his re-sellers.
When this discussion was had a couple of months ago I noticed upon careful re-weighing of our pole range that a couple of our poles had inaccurately posted weights (mistakes can happen) so I immediately made changes so that the weights that customers look at are as accurate (manufacturing tolerances permitting) as can be. It did also work the other way that upon weighing and measuring our poles some of them were lighter and some were longer than previously published.
I would expect some diffrence in listed weight to actual weights due to manufacturing etc.
I'll have to see and check when I get my facelift poles end of the month
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It's not just about weight for me.
If a pole is a few grams lighter but more delicate I'd prefer something a bit more robust.
Snapped an old blue fibreglass pole about 8 years ago trying to get it up.
Also, some poles have places where you can clamp-strengthened inside but only every 500mm or so. Having not used a pole like that (but know they're about) I can't comment from experience but wouldn't they wear at clamp points and need replacing sooner?
And (a bit more unlikely) but you could be restricted if standing in a confined space to clean.
Just MO
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And (a bit more unlikely) but you could be restricted if standing in a confined space to clean.
Just MO
That's why I have a 2ft-4ft wfp in the van! Ready for those small spaced jobs, or if I just want to use that on a bungalow if i feel lazy! Lol
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I am saying that their published weights do not match the weight of the actual poles being sent out. They may well not have gotten around to amending their published weights. I did notice that Stephen Fox in a recent post referred to one of his poles that has a published weight of just 1.3kg as being about 1.4kg so maybe he is aware of these discrepancies and has not gotten around to changing it yet with all of his re-sellers.
When this discussion was had a couple of months ago I noticed upon careful re-weighing of our pole range that a couple of our poles had inaccurately posted weights (mistakes can happen) so I immediately made changes so that the weights that customers look at are as accurate (manufacturing tolerances permitting) as can be. It did also work the other way that upon weighing and measuring our poles some of them were lighter and some were longer than previously published.
Alex,
This is not true at all. On looking at your previous weights none of them are lighter. In fact, all the SLX's (bar one that stayed the same) are heavier than you previously published, one in fact was a whooping 150g heavier than stated.
I'm pretty confident not one of the Facelift Phoenix poles have that much of a 'mistake' in the published weights with manufacturing tolerances allowed.
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I am saying that their published weights do not match the weight of the actual poles being sent out. They may well not have gotten around to amending their published weights. I did notice that Stephen Fox in a recent post referred to one of his poles that has a published weight of just 1.3kg as being about 1.4kg so maybe he is aware of these discrepancies and has not gotten around to changing it yet with all of his re-sellers.
When this discussion was had a couple of months ago I noticed upon careful re-weighing of our pole range that a couple of our poles had inaccurately posted weights (mistakes can happen) so I immediately made changes so that the weights that customers look at are as accurate (manufacturing tolerances permitting) as can be. It did also work the other way that upon weighing and measuring our poles some of them were lighter and some were longer than previously published.
Alex,
This is not true at all. On looking at your previous weights none of them are lighter. In fact, all the SLX's (bar one that stayed the same) are heavier than you previously published, one in fact was a whooping 150g heavier than stated.
I'm pretty confident not one of the Facelift Phoenix poles have that much of a 'mistake' in the published weights with manufacturing tolerances allowed.
Once again we are discussing this same issue on yet another forum (ironically under the tag of Ionics poles!) - your 26ftUL Phoenix was originally advertised as 1.3kg and yet weighs 1.45kg (bare with no hose or brush or gooseneck) this is a 150g discrepancy. I have just checked and this published weight has recently been changed to 1400g on Facelift's website which means the discrepancy is a lot less now at only 50g - good to see that you have now changed this in light of almost identical 'conversations' on other forums.
When any discrepancies were noted by myself on the published weights of our pole range I immediately rectified this. We did have a glaring error on the published weight on the SLX22 which for some reason was way off, this was pointed out a couple of months ago and I immediately changed it - this was not just a manufacturing tolerance error but a publishing error and was 150g off true weight.
One or two of the larger size poles were fractionally lighter and fractionally longer than advertised - but we have left the published weights and lengths as they are as this may simply be a batch variance. We figure that no one will complain about a pole that is 1cm longer extended than published.
I have just gone out and weighed your poles (the CarbonX, 18, 22 & 26UL) again on the same scales that I weighed our poles on and none of them are lighter than our equivalent poles and none of them match their current published weights - so in answer to Richard's original post about weights the Facelift poles are not lighter than the Gardiner range - at least the carbon ones I have are not - the others I have yet to verify for myself, but will be doing so in due course.
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They might have put on a few grams over Chrimbo.
Come on, lighten up.........lighten up, get it?
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They might have put on a few grams over Chrimbo.
Come on, lighten up.........lighten up, get it?
:)
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Alex, our pole weights are with out adapter and base cap, as these attachments can/will be changed. I imagine you weigh yours without them and ours with? According to our scales, what we've published is pretty much what they are, with a variance on manufacture.
Weights are really just to give an idea of the pole, it all changes when brushes/hose/aquadapter are added for actual work. Anyone and everyone I've spoken to who holds a SLX18 and a Phoenix 18, for example, say they weigh the same.
Our 'equivalent' poles maybe a slight bit heavier (in grams, yet to confirm this) as we have, I believe, more carbon on the pole due to slightly thicker tube diameter than the SLX. This gives more rigidity to the Phoenix X over SLX as you have seen.
Glad to see you are a good customer of Facelift! How are you getting on?
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Also, as far as I'm aware you don't have an equivalent to a UL26?
Comparing it to an SLX25, as you tried in your video, is a very inaccurate comparison. The UL26 is a pole in it's own class. You would be better comparing it the new Phoenix 25 X.
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I reckon your scales might be inaccurate - so in order to bring this matter to an amicable conclusion I will offer my services.
My mrs has a set of pharmaceutical lab scales which have a 7.5kg capacity and are accurate to 0.1g (No, she's not a dealer,.. she makes soap!) which would be perfect for accurately weighing poles.
So my suggestion would be: each of you nominate one of the others poles which you think is furthest from its advertised weight, you each post over the nominated poles to me & I'll video them being weighed. The looser (The one who's pole is furthest from its advertised weight) forfeits the pole, and only the winners pole gets returned - - - sound fair??
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Alex, our pole weights are with out adapter and base cap, as these attachments can/will be changed. I imagine you weigh yours without them and ours with? According to our scales, what we've published is pretty much what they are, with a variance on manufacture.
Weights are really just to give an idea of the pole, it all changes when brushes/hose/aquadapter are added for actual work. Anyone and everyone I've spoken to who holds a SLX18 and a Phoenix 18, for example, say they weigh the same.
Our 'equivalent' poles maybe a slight bit heavier (in grams, yet to confirm this) as we have, I believe, more carbon on the pole due to slightly thicker tube diameter than the SLX. This gives more rigidity to the Phoenix X over SLX as you have seen.
Glad to see you are a good customer of Facelift! How are you getting on?
This may explain your differences as we weigh all poles with top goose-neck connector and end-cap in place as most users will use the poles with these items fitted.
Personally I have not seen any increase in rigidity based on my like for like tests with new pole against new pole, both fully extended.
I think I must be your best customer so far!
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Haha! That does sound like a good idea.
Nat, you may get a phonecall!
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Also, as far as I'm aware you don't have an equivalent to a UL26?
Comparing it to an SLX25, as you tried in your video, is a very inaccurate comparison. The UL26 is a pole in it's own class. You would be better comparing it the new Phoenix 25 X.
We will certainly be doing a like for like comparison - we can only buy and test what is on the market at the time as with any competitor. This type of testing and industry knowledge is invaluable when it comes to product knowledge and development.
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I reckon your scales might be inaccurate - so in order to bring this matter to an amicable conclusion I will offer my services.
My mrs has a set of pharmaceutical lab scales which have a 7.5kg capacity and are accurate to 0.1g (No, she's not a dealer,.. she makes soap!) which would be perfect for accurately weighing poles.
So my suggestion would be: each of you nominate one of the others poles which you think is furthest from its advertised weight, you each post over the nominated poles to me & I'll video them being weighed. The looser (The one who's pole is furthest from its advertised weight) forfeits the pole, and only the winners pole gets returned - - - sound fair??
Good offer Nat - although I think that Stephen & I have found the reason for the discrepancy in that the Facelift poles are weighed by Stephen without top connector or base cap fitted whereas we weigh all poles with these items fitted. This alone can make up to 50/60g difference.
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I reckon your scales might be inaccurate - so in order to bring this matter to an amicable conclusion I will offer my services.
My mrs has a set of pharmaceutical lab scales which have a 7.5kg capacity and are accurate to 0.1g (No, she's not a dealer,.. she makes soap!) which would be perfect for accurately weighing poles.
So my suggestion would be: each of you nominate one of the others poles which you think is furthest from its advertised weight, you each post over the nominated poles to me & I'll video them being weighed. The looser (The one who's pole is furthest from its advertised weight) forfeits the pole, and only the winners pole gets returned - - - sound fair??
Good offer Nat - although I think that Stephen & I have found the reason for the discrepancy in that the Facelift poles are weighed by Stephen without top connector or base cap fitted whereas we weigh all poles with these items fitted. This alone can make up to 50/60g difference.
I always work without a base cap and no top connector. its lighter and I am less tired and the end of the day.
I find the brush head being held on by the pole hose floppy but fun.
Art
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I reckon your scales might be inaccurate - so in order to bring this matter to an amicable conclusion I will offer my services.
My mrs has a set of pharmaceutical lab scales which have a 7.5kg capacity and are accurate to 0.1g (No, she's not a dealer,.. she makes soap!) which would be perfect for accurately weighing poles.
So my suggestion would be: each of you nominate one of the others poles which you think is furthest from its advertised weight, you each post over the nominated poles to me & I'll video them being weighed. The looser (The one who's pole is furthest from its advertised weight) forfeits the pole, and only the winners pole gets returned - - - sound fair??
Good offer Nat - although I think that Stephen & I have found the reason for the discrepancy in that the Facelift poles are weighed by Stephen without top connector or base cap fitted whereas we weigh all poles with these items fitted. This alone can make up to 50/60g difference.
I always work without a base cap and no top connector. its lighter and I am less tired and the end of the day.
I find the brush head being held on by the pole hose floppy but fun.
Art
;D
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Main reason for not including the top connector is it can be removed and another attachment used in it's place (carbon goose-neck, UL section, etc) so obviously the weight would be different depending on what you use.
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so only a couple like the ionics then... lol thanks for the input guys especially alex and stephen ;)
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Be interesting to see how many have used both Ionic and Gardiner.
Can't make a proper comparison until both have been used IMO.
I've not used a Gardiner personally, will have to try one.
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Try a Phoenix, It has sold well.... Even Alex G has bought a few!!
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How much are your 80ft?
Weight and diameter? Collapsed length?
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at 80 ft you would have to get the gardiner extreme... you can have a look at gardinerpolesystems is a brill pole but at that height it would be expensive . but you are looking at what many experts would say is the best pole on the planet..(arguebly)... my next pole without a doubt
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£500 cheaper than Ionic. Only 3 feet shorter.
What is the HS extension like?
Kind of like the idea of extensions and kind of don't...
Phoenix looks good-except the brush head on the site-jost mo but it looks amateur compared to the pole.
Tbh I'm not looking to buy for a few months anyway so plenty of time for research.
Or a sale (Alex ;))
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what many experts would say is the best pole on the planet..
Who are the experts?
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what many experts would say is the best pole on the planet..
Who are the experts?
Anyone who cleans at 80 foot i reckon ! ;D
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I reckon your scales might be inaccurate - so in order to bring this matter to an amicable conclusion I will offer my services.
My mrs has a set of pharmaceutical lab scales which have a 7.5kg capacity and are accurate to 0.1g (No, she's not a dealer,.. she makes soap!) which would be perfect for accurately weighing poles.
So my suggestion would be: each of you nominate one of the others poles which you think is furthest from its advertised weight, you each post over the nominated poles to me & I'll video them being weighed. The looser (The one who's pole is furthest from its advertised weight) forfeits the pole, and only the winners pole gets returned - - - sound fair??
Good offer Nat - although I think that Stephen & I have found the reason for the discrepancy in that the Facelift poles are weighed by Stephen without top connector or base cap fitted whereas we weigh all poles with these items fitted. This alone can make up to 50/60g difference.
The offer stands if anyone thinks there are still discrepancies with this taken into account,... ;D ;D 8) 8)
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what many experts would say is the best pole on the planet..
Who are the experts?
reviews on you tube . and many proffessional windys on the forums . listen mike i dont want to get into this endless debate . facelift poles are really good gardiners are really good . surely its like comparing a bmw to a jaguar its down to personal choice... i think there is enough room in the trade for several pole manufacturers