Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike_Boxall on January 27, 2004, 02:05:25 pm

Title: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Mike_Boxall on January 27, 2004, 02:05:25 pm: Just to let you know that I am meeting Craig Mawlam tommorrow in Lyneham to see the crash test 'data' that so many recent topics have covered. Like many others here I am getting tired of reading the same accusations time and again. Ionic says the system that failed the crash test was fitted by 'the competitor' and it has video evidence to prove it, while Brodex insists the machine in question was not - one of them is blatantly lying and I'm interested to know if this video actually exists and what's on it. Brodex also question the test proceedure used by Thatcham and claim that they will produce any results for a fee. Recently, Omnipole have joined the debate (again another one who has chosen to do it anonymously) and have suggested that the test video has been digitally modified.

There are also a number of other issues that have been discussed but have been inconclusive because one or other has witheld information and it will be interesting to see what information Ionic are prepared to share.

Ironically, pure water window cleaning is becoming more and more popular, in part at least, because it is considered safer than working with ladders. Crash testing is a serious issue and it's unfortunate that it's going to take the death of a window cleaner from a poorly fitted system before more manufacturers become proactive about safety and work together to make ALL systems safer.

I'll let you know on Thursday once I've discovered why they won't publish 'the data' (if indeed it actually exists!)

Regards

Mike
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Majestic on January 27, 2004, 05:30:04 pm: Dom,
Are you not on there xmas card mailing list ;D perhaps at the fed show you could try out each others products ::)
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: sham33 on January 27, 2004, 05:48:51 pm: Im sick and tired of hearing about it. Maybe if people want to ask these companys about there systems they could do us all a favour and PM them. Its pointless asking anything about it on the open forum. Just becomes a slanging match.
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: shinnyshinner on January 27, 2004, 08:09:33 pm: Hi all.
On a serious note
I have just been on to ionic’s web site for the first time too see what their companies products were like as I am looking into buying a wfp, and it mad me feel quite sick with the thought what damage could be done when a tank goes a stray, this is a very sensitive area ionic has brought to our attention, and would like to know which company made the tank which failed.
Other manufactures should be made to carry out these tests with regards to health and safety.
Very shocked
Alan
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: APS_PureWash_Sys on January 27, 2004, 09:47:38 pm: Alan
go back and have another look at it and watch it over and over again an if you can take it frame by frame, to me it looks like the thing was not even bolted down.
by the way it was not one of my systems.
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Terry_Burrows on January 27, 2004, 11:07:19 pm: ;)Pandoras box I call it ???can of worms ???so many questions ??? we all live we all learn :-/ we are all pros

in our own right ,would be nice we can all learn together

become united

we can all become

masters of our trade
and just be proud of what we have discoverd for generations to come the industry needs only pros

may be time to think and re think
always time for better moves,maybe ???do not knock what has been found

happy cleaning to all
new ways will always go ahead
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: matt on January 27, 2004, 11:10:05 pm: Quote
Im sick and tired of hearing about it. Maybe if people want to ask these companys about there systems they could do us all a favour and PM them. Its pointless asking anything about it on the open forum. Just becomes a slanging match.

well said :) :) :)

i do domestic's and while i can see the point of a WFP for real high stuff, i do 1st floor and thats it, they can like it or lump it (i will expect lose biz to all your WFP guys, but hey, thats life)

we can go on and on all day and night about this test, that test
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Terry_Burrows on January 27, 2004, 11:13:23 pm: ;)The world of the squee gee will never die ;)it could be
just teenage spots ??? ::) :P ;)
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: denzle on January 27, 2004, 11:36:23 pm: I don't use a waterfed system, but if i were looking around for one i would make my own mind up on which system was best with the information provided from the various companies, not on the rantings of some disgruntled company employee/owner. I would not dream of slagging off a local competitor as i think it is as unprofessional as it gets to do so. I personaly find these rantings tedious to say the least.
This is my only word on the subject and will not respond to any replies intended to stir things up.
Denzle
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Mike_Boxall on January 28, 2004, 12:13:25 am: This whole issue is getting out of hand which is why I'm so keen to see the evidence myself. Having looked into pure water systems in some depth our conclusion was that while the Reach & Wash systems are not the cheapest they had the most comprehensive range available and without doubt have led the industry in terms of quality and innovation. With so many people questioning the validity of the crash tests (which is a fundamental selling point) we need to be convinced that they are indicative of a genuine crash.

I think the way forward will be to stop manufacturers getting involved in these topics unless they are directly asked to comment.

What does everyone else think?

Regards

Mike
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Mikey Warner on January 28, 2004, 12:19:34 am: ::)I Blame the guy who invented the pole ::)

;)

Mikey
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: karlosdaze on January 28, 2004, 12:41:08 am: Blame the guy who invented the window, wheel & water. ::)
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: paul w on January 28, 2004, 12:46:18 am: ???terry heard you on capital radio pls print that song on hear cheers paul :o ;D
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: matt on January 28, 2004, 12:46:59 am: Mike

the idea of not letting the makers get involved in the discussion till they are asked will not work, as you will find they will sign up twice, use the "joe bloggs" name to ask themselves a question

Ive seen it happen many time on other topic boards
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: stevekennedy on January 28, 2004, 12:49:34 am: Hi Mike,

I agree with Denzle. But, well done for going and checking it all out. Bit difficult for likes of me to travel from Scotland.

Look forward to hearing your opinion.

SteveK
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: shinnyshinner on January 28, 2004, 01:08:28 am: Hi APS and all
Whether the tank was secured properly or not, who knows? But looking at what damage can be done with not securing the tank in properly i.e. serious harm or loss of life don’t you think their should be strict health and safety guidelines with all suppliers selling these systems,
My opinion what’s yours
Alan
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: paul on January 28, 2004, 10:36:49 am: I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU SHINNY ???THEY SHOULD HAVE TIGHTER RESTRICTIONS ON THE MANURFACTURES OF THESE SYSTEMS AND BE INDEPENDENTLY TESTED :'(
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Neil on January 28, 2004, 11:43:57 am: I used to really enjoy this forum! I would look forward to loggin on after a hard day at the office :P
Not any more :(
It seems to have turned into a medium for companys to criticize each other :'(
I thought the idea behind this forum was to help people in the industry with problems and to swap ideas among fellow profesionals ???
Sadley it seems to have deteriated into nothing but scandel and bickering.
Reading all the slagging over the last few weeks has got annoying :'( Why dont you WFP lot go and do your childish moaning elswhere and let this forum continue to do what it was desinged for
WINDOW CLEANERS TALKING ABOUT WINDOW CLEANING
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: stevekennedy on January 28, 2004, 01:32:21 pm: Hi Wylie,

Maybe there should be a seperate section for waterfed poles ??? That would keep such discussions seperate from other window cleaning issues. Perhaps Mike and Steve have already thought of that, I don't know ???

There are plenty of other interesting posts on the forum. Would be a shame to stop using it just because of these arguments :(
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: g_griffin on January 28, 2004, 02:14:07 pm: I don`t use a pole but to be fair,the wfp IS about window cleaning so the subject is entitled to be on here. It doesn`t matter what method you use. Some still use a chamois and scrim but I`m sure they`d be welcomed and advice given.
But I do agree the pole debate could have been handled better and more constructively (entertaining as it was at first).
Can you imagine representatives of Unger and Ettore slagging each other off on this site.

Gerry.
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Neil on January 28, 2004, 06:19:38 pm: I totaly agree
but it seems that most threads get around to the same old thing :(
WFP politics yawn :D
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Majestic on January 28, 2004, 11:46:11 pm: Old master
Do you work for Omnipole, I just like to know who everyone is ;) 8)
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Mike_Boxall on January 29, 2004, 03:06:10 pm: Having spent some considerable time going through all the posts that Sean Rimmer and Reuben Reynolds have posted over the past couple of months I'm going to avoid anything that may be viewed as subjective and stick to the facts so that others can make an informed decision.

Sean suggested the title of this thread should have been Ionic v The rest of the industry and that Brodex had been 'singled out for special treatment'. Craig did agree that the whole issue was an industry issue and having read through all the previous posts it is clear that not until Sean admitted it was their machine they tested did Ionic give any indication of who's it was.

Having spent over 5 hours going through the whole crash test information yesterday I'd like to quote just one particular posting Dom Matrix (aka Sean Rimmer) made on Thursday 18th December which was consequently removed from the forum. This single post sums up thier side of the story.

"BRODEX did supply the machine in your crash test video, but never installed it. As you well know, the private investigator you sent to our company bought the machine in the hope that we would install it to the rustbucket transit, which as you correctly note was not upto carrying the payload of a HIGHFLOW machine. We checked the vinplate & model number and told your investigator, that we could not install to that van, as it would be overloaded if he filled it with water.! After consulting with Craig Mawlam, he returned next day to say he would take the machine away empty in the lightweight van (for which he could not produce a valid MOT certificate)and get his engineer brother to install. in his own roadworthy van. Your lies are as plain as the nose on your face. "

This is simply not true. I have seen the video taken by thier private detective which clearly records the whole event including negotiating the price, dropping the vehicle off on 23/1/2003 and collecting it fitted to the van on 28/1/2003. Their was no indication that Brodex questioned the payload of the van and it was confirmed when it was collected that it was full of water. We actually weighed the Brodex machine yesterday and it was 881kgs while full of water. I saw the original V5 which confirms that the van had a maximum payload of 800kgs. I saw the original MOT certificate which was still current at the time of fitting. By no stretch of the imagination could the van be classed as unroadworthy or indeed 'a rust bucket'.

"The Thatcham test was bought and paid for by OTT, NOT BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION INDEPENDENT TESTING. If you want an example of independent testing, ask Which magazine. They buy products and test them, photograph them, even film them. They DO NOT RECEIVE PAYMENT from the manufacturers to paint their product in a better way or even misrepresent other competitors products in a decietful manner. To set the record straight, THATCHAM DID NOT CONTROL THE CRASH TEST PROCEDURE, THEY DO NOT HAVE DATA ON THE COMPARATIVE CRASH TEST ON OUR MACHINE, BECAUSE THEY DID NOT TEST IT..! THEY MERELY FILMED AN UNINSTALLED HIGHFLOW UNIT FLYING THROUGH THE AIR, HARDLY SURPRISING AS YOU INSTALLED IT THAT WAY, WITHOUT OUR MOUNTING KIT OR CHAIN RESTRAINT SYSTEM INSTALLED AS STANDARD ON ALL HIGHFLOW VANMOUNTS . The chain restraint system that was supossed to be picked up by your detective is still sitting in the workshop...and by the way, the machine you bought is due a service...and since your company have yet to develop any industrial machines to date, I suggest you leave it to the professionals, we'll give you a special price on a full service.!
regards Sean Rimmer"

Again not true. Thatcham have provided an exceptional amount of comparative data on the crash test. When Reuben said that you needed special software to view the data I was sceptical about it. However, the data is so involved that Thatham have had to create a software program to analyse it. It contains hundreds of images from 4 different camera angles on all the tests including both the van tests and the sled tests. The Brodex machine was clearly fitted in the same way as it left them and there are sworn affidavits to confirm that the machine was not altered from the time it left them to the time it got to Thatchams.
The unit does indeed look like wasn't fitted properly because the bolts simply sheared off on impact - you can clearly see one of the bolt heads hitting the dashboard and the bracing bar underneath the van dropping off just after the impact. The floor did not give way, the unit simply failed the test.

cont.......
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Mike_Boxall on January 29, 2004, 03:06:47 pm: ...continued

Other claims that have been made recently include the fact that, in the van mount test, Ionics system only had 800ltrs of water in it. This is true but the video footage of the sled test clearly shows that the unit also passed with a full 1000ltr tank. There were several tests on the Ionic system at different speeds and with different capacity and the Thatcham certificate clearly states that it passed the test with a 1000kg payload. Both the Ionic and the Brodex van tests had similar payloads to demonstrate a like for like impact. Thatcham have also issued the same certificate to Pure 2o on the basis that they both use the same frame structure.

Omnipole recently commented that they thought the video had been edited and they implied that the dummy hit the windscreen. This is not the case. You can watch the impact from any number of angles and it is clear that their system did not even hit the seat. It may be that people assume this is the case beacause of the shattered windscreen which was caused by the collapse of bonnet.

In summary, my comments are pretty much the same as Reuben claimed when he originally replied to Seans post in December. The video evidence is unquestionable and Ionic have gone to extroadinary lengths to ensure that the whole crash test was fairly undertaken with a typical competitors installation.

It also has to be said that even though the Ionic system passed this test they have continued to develop the safety aspect of their systems including the development of new brackets that have twice the tollerance of the ones they used in the crash test.

Everyone has a right to express their opinion on this forum and it needs to be encouraged, however, a line has to be drawn when members post blatant lies. No matter how you look at it Brodex have misled members here and I can quite understand why Ionic have been so concerned about their accusations. We took the decision to remove Seans posts before because he originally joined the forum pretending to be a window cleaner and, yet again, we do not feel that Brodex should be allowed to influence others by posting in this way.

There is obviously a place in the market for Brodex equipment but my own personal view is that I seriously doubt that OCS would have favoured the them had they seen all the information I was shown yesterday. This is my opinion, others should draw their own conclusions.

Dom - 'Your lies are as plain as the nose on your face' (Sean Rimmer, Industrial Chemist 3:14pm Thurs 18th December 2003)
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Mike_Boxall on January 29, 2004, 04:11:43 pm: Quote
I have also decided not to comment any further regarding the crash test issue.

Sorry, but you will not be allowed to comment! The whole purpose of my visit was to draw a line under it. It has all been said and everyone now has enough information to draw their own conclusions.

Regards

Mike Boxall
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Terry_Burrows on January 29, 2004, 04:32:26 pm: ;)well sumed up mike ;)

as I said in my posts before,may be we need to think
and rethink about what we do, :-/

new ways will always move forward in a pro way ;)
I am sure the paths to wfp will be clear one day ;)

good luck to all ;)
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: poleman on January 29, 2004, 11:02:15 pm: :-/WHITE WASH :-/
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: g_griffin on January 29, 2004, 11:08:23 pm: Now then, what about that?
Dom`s having a bad week. Nigeria lost the other day as well.

Gerry.
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: karlosdaze on January 29, 2004, 11:19:52 pm: I'd love to see the whole video, any chance of viewing it online?
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Old_Master on January 30, 2004, 03:48:38 am: Somebody's come up smelling of Roses again
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Mike_Boxall on January 30, 2004, 11:38:09 am: Quote
Somebody's come up smelling of Roses again

'Old Master'

You appear to be posting the same way as Brodex did -anonymously, that is.

You have yet to confirm that you are actually a representative of Omnipole - is that the case or not?

If your profile is not updated today all your posts will be removed and you will not be able access this forum again.
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Old_Master on January 30, 2004, 12:13:24 pm: There are always three sides to a story :Yours,the other and the truth
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: highwash on January 30, 2004, 01:27:20 pm: Mike- this forum has been very helpful to me in my first year of trading. when i registered i filled in the relevent fields. oops!! missed my birthdate but mentioned my age on a posting. the point of my reply is that i don't have a problem with my identity and welcome any informative mail. perhaps if the forum made it mandatory to fill in all the fields you wouldn't have to put up with the recent nonsense.
regards - TERRY www.highwashsystems.co.uk born 21st June 1948
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Old_Master on January 30, 2004, 02:00:38 pm: Mike
to answer your question I do work for Omnipole and also PH Cleaning Services.
I started cleaning windows in1977 had the first and largest Graffiti removal company in the UK and have worked and advised in both France and Sweden.
I am a commitee member of The Anti Graffiti Association run by London Underground-English and Scotish Heritage.
Built our first van mount system in 1984 which had a 1000 litre water storage tank, 27 kva generator, 3000 psi (200 bar ) steam cleaner.
We have cleaned Marble Arch, Nelsons Column etc etc
Need any more information?
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: STEVE71163 on January 30, 2004, 02:14:54 pm: Hi Old Master
Do you have a name ???

Steve
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Majestic on January 30, 2004, 03:50:01 pm: Old Master ?
That wasnt that hard was it , Welcome to the forum 8)
Any one else out there who wants to tell us anything ???
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: jonesy5 on January 30, 2004, 04:00:52 pm: Hi Mike
i know brodex sounds very much in the wrong but surely he must be allowed to answer these accusations!!
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: karlosdaze on January 30, 2004, 04:02:46 pm: I think he's either been barred or he's unsubscibed :o
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Mike_Boxall on January 30, 2004, 04:21:29 pm: Hi Jonesy

We've already allowed him to answer - what I've quoted from Sean was his defence!

Feel free to discuss it amongst yourselves but for now I've got other priorities.

'Keep it real' ;)
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Old_Master on January 30, 2004, 05:08:55 pm: "What shall we do now" asked the Tortoise

" Count our blessings" said Alice
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Majestic on January 30, 2004, 07:33:36 pm: Well Mike have you barred Dom , I feel he had something to offer the forum , I know he went on about the same thing most of the time but is that not over now, so he should still be able to cotribute to other topics
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Old_Master on January 30, 2004, 07:36:27 pm: Majestic I feel beter for it!
like going to an AA meeting ;D
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Majestic on January 30, 2004, 07:39:51 pm: I wonder why
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: shinnyshinner on January 30, 2004, 10:58:59 pm: Hi Mike and everyone else
Looking at it the only defence Sean has given is from past text chosen by yourself and don’t think barring him just because you have seen footage at ionics is the way to go. Sean or brodex do have a right to reply.
Even though in my opinion Sean did used to wind people up but he also did give useful advise to people when buying wfp’s, not ever company can afford the ionics set up and good to know what other systems are out their.
I see express cleaning does sell a domestic wfp made buy ionics lets just hope this has not clouded your decision. Sorry but I feel I had to say it.
I know I did state to you that I thought this was not a laughing matter with the crash test findings but Rubens from Ionics was still in the slagging match too. (Where theirs smoke there is fire)
Wouldn’t a better end result be to just tell all company’s of wfp’s not to drag up the subject again?
This does seem a bit harsh Mike.
Alan
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Majestic on January 31, 2004, 12:39:34 am: Mike you said
We've already allowed him to answer - what I've quoted from Sean was his defence
Was that before your visit or after.

I still feel that Dom should have his say even if you dont agree with it .

He should still be allowed to use the forum but not mention the crash testing or face a ban . I think that it does look odd that you stock OTT products and have been so harsh with one of there competitors but thats only my opinion (I know 2 people who will disagree with me )

BRING BACK THE DOM
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: WavieDavie on January 31, 2004, 12:58:45 am: Yes, the whole point of a forum is to let everyone have their say, whether you agree with them or not. Difficult at times, I know.

As Dom himself said, you don't have to read his posts.

As some old French philosopher said, I might not agree with what was said, but I'll defend to the death his right to say it (paraphrased)

I think this is going to run and run . . .
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: poleman on January 31, 2004, 06:08:32 am: yes i would second that, if it is true express cleaning do stock OTT products then we all have been taken for mugs

:( :( :(

BRING BACK THE DOM

he keeps it real
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Neil on January 31, 2004, 09:58:48 am: The DOM keeps it real?
but he still slags the competition.
Freedom of speech is esential but it can turn into a tool against others.
I come on this forum for answers to questions and help with problems.
I would like to think that any answers I get are honest and not company sales motivated.
I dont have a problem with anyone using this forum providing they do it for the benifit of all and not just their profit margin!
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Old_Master on January 31, 2004, 12:11:49 pm: " Some suppress Freedom in the name of law and order"

What sort of company sends private investigators into their competitors - Were humble manufacturers of pole systems not international organisations.

Brodex are not the only company these "dirty tricks" were used against.
And I am not talking about us (omnipole).
These tactics have been used many times - hence the dislike by the rest of the industry.
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: denzle on January 31, 2004, 12:28:19 pm: I thought this was a forum for people in the same industry to help one another, not where company politics were aired. I have not found any of Doms postings to be of benefit in the least.
From what i read of his rantings, his sole purpose in life was to slate off any competitors systems and promote his own. Now that he has been found out as a teller of untruths i would suggest that we are better off without him. I don't see Peter F slating people off, quite the contrary... Peter seems very helpful to anyone asking for assistance.
The other thing i noticed was that some people liked to post messages in order to " Fire " Dom up, then they would sit back and watch the ensueing free for all.
My oppinion.... we're better off without this idiot.
But like i said its only my oppinion.
Denzle
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: BeeClean on January 31, 2004, 05:51:59 pm: hi guys. does anyone want someone here whos going to lie to us when we ask them questions ??? for those that havnt been around for long you probably dont know that he was banned before so hes had a second chance already!

I thought he was a 'thingyhole' from the start anyway ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: jonesy5 on January 31, 2004, 08:20:49 pm: I am not saying views in case get barred!!!!!!
is this the way forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bRING BACK DOM
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: poleman on January 31, 2004, 10:30:55 pm: Quote
I am not saying views in case get barred!!!!!!
is this the way forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bRING BACK DOM

jonesy you wont get barred for your views, i hope ???, this is what this forum is about. VIEWS

andy

dorset

fed member
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: g_griffin on February 01, 2004, 03:41:07 pm: I don`t think Dom needed any firing up.

If there was a WFP related question you could guarantee Dom would post and not always positively.
I recall when he first joined, that this site was flooded with Dom`s posts and he needed no encouragement.
Also, when it went quiet on the WFP front (not very often), Dom would post in an "antagonistic" manner( I use Mike`s term and agree). He did this without help or urging from anyone to get a response/argument from other suppliers.
When Rueben advertised a system in the Buy and Sell Used Equipment section, Dom followed with a similar product at a lower price immediately after. I don`t think this was coincidence and I don`t believe anyone put him up to it.
Dom can`t blame anyone for getting him fired up, this is what he tried to do to others.
I won`t mention telling lies.

Gerry.
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: stevekennedy on February 02, 2004, 01:37:19 pm: Thanks Mike for taking this time to shed more light on the issue. But, Old Master & others, If Rueben had just walked into Brodex' premises and asked to have a system fitted, don't you think Sean would have suspected something? ??? To be a fair test of a typical installation, it had to be someone who Sean wouldn't know. Using a private investigator sounds seedy, I agree, but, how else could they have done it?

Whole thing reminds me of these TV shows where they invite tradesmen to work on a house full of cameras. Why don't they just tell the builders/plumbers that they're being filmed? ::) Pretty obvious why. Because the film company wouldn't see a typical example of the tradesman's work. It has to be done secretly. Same with the Ionic test.

However, I am NOT suggesting that Brodex (or any other supplier) are 'Rogue Traders'. Not at all. I don't believe they are out to rip off the public. Their prices seem reasonable, their equipment looks quality. But their system DID fail the safety test. Perhaps Sean(aka DOM) saw the forum as an opportunity to minimise the damage caused by this test, but all he has done is cause further damage to himself and his company. (If it is true that he has lied, then that is really disappointing :( )

Perhaps if Sean and the other manufacturers co-operated more, they could combine resources and test together. Then the public faith would be restored. Until then, Ionic will have a big advantage over them. Just my opinion ???

As for DOM coming back on the forum, I'll put in my two pence worth. On the RARE occasion, when DOM answered a question about water treatment or an aspect of pole technology etc. his comments were informative, helpful and welcome. However, he always seemed to have a sting in the tail. This was a shame. If only he realised how bad this makes him look. If he were to be helpful, and neutral as to his business interests then I, for one, would welcome him back. But I think he has upset a LOT of people :-/
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: sham33 on February 02, 2004, 04:31:03 pm: I dont think we should be making any comments about Dom or Brodex if the guy cant come on here and defend himself.

I think we should just let it go. If not then let him back on. It just not cricket.
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: karlosdaze on February 02, 2004, 10:38:46 pm: Quote
When DOM answered a question

Lol.............................did he ever answer a question?
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: APS_PureWash_Sys on February 02, 2004, 11:48:49 pm: you can take it from me DOM'S gone for good!! the plug has been pulled on him and as some of you say he could not reply to Mike Boxall Hutton report the cleanitup God or is he abusing the POWER of the forum????
yes this could be my last post the way things are going!!! yes mike does stock OTT gear!!!! but he has not seen both sides of the argument so the line is only half drawn
He has not taken up an invitation from Brodex to see their side of things!!

so this forum is now an IONIC'S Grooming ground
so watch out thing are not what they seem

AS THE CATCH PHRASE GOES
SAY WHAT YOU SEE
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: APS_PureWash_Sys on February 03, 2004, 12:54:45 am: if you can not see it for the smoke >:(
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Old_Master on February 03, 2004, 02:29:32 am: I Agree
Mike better watch out their may be an "Ironic" take over bid!
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: shinnyshinner on February 03, 2004, 06:58:15 pm: Hi Mike B
It's been four days now since the Dom debate 1st started and still you have not replyed,
Could you come back and tell us you views with giving Dom the option to come back onto this site to defend himself, or give his version, as by what has been posted with what Ionics have been up to with private investigators and their dirty tricks I would hate to think that forum admin was backing them in this topic
Alan
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Majestic on February 03, 2004, 07:22:17 pm: Alan
Just because Mike sells OTT products should not make him biased at all
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: shinnyshinner on February 03, 2004, 07:46:22 pm: To be honest not sure,
Funny how a member of Ionics has not been on since, so would it be better to all shut up and let it blow over?
a bit different to what was put a few days ago
Alan
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Majestic on February 03, 2004, 09:59:42 pm: Just because they have not posted anything does not mean they are not reading the posts ,
The truth is out there
Title: Re: Ionic v Brodex - The truth is out there!
Post by: Mike_Boxall on February 04, 2004, 12:12:06 pm: Quote
Hi Mike B
It's been four days now since the Dom debate 1st started and still you have not replyed,
Could you come back and tell us you views with giving Dom the option to come back onto this site to defend himself, or give his version, as by what has been posted with what Ionics have been up to with private investigators and their dirty tricks I would hate to think that forum admin was backing them in this topic
Alan

Hi Alan

I said before that I wasn't going to comment further!

A couple of points to clarify though.

We've had more complaints than support for Sean!

Sean was banned before Christmas but we let him back on the basis that he would stop his antagonistic approach. He didn't!

Our decision was in no way at all biased and if we'd found out that Ionic had misled members we'd have banned them and we wouldn't deal with them!

Sean claimed they didn't fit the machine that was used for the crash test and questioned the validity of it. Anyone with a serious interest in van mounted systems and the safety of them has an open invitation to see the information I did if they go to Ionic in Lyneham. Those that continue to protest his innocence clearly haven't.

I promote this forum to my customers so they can get good honest advice from others in the industry. Allowing others to mislead them is not an option! You can call that abuse of our position if you wish!!!!

Regards

Mike Boxall