Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 18 November 2003
Have you triedwww.andwat.co.uk
also Brodex ,I cant remember the web site , but its in the fed mag
Posted by Pure_2o (Pure_2o), 19 November 2003
When buying resin make sure you know what grade resin you are buying. Some companies can supply a 25ltr bag of resin for as little as £50, BUT at this price it would typically be regenerated resin (recycled) so it wouldn't last as long as virgin resin. You could end up buying the stuff twice as often which wont actually save you money !I can supply a 25ltr bag of VIRGIN MB400 resin for £75.
Posted by peterf (peterf), 19 November 2003
[quote author=Pure_2o link=board=Equipment;num=1069182799;start=0#2 date=11/19/03 at 14:36:19]When buying resin make sure you know what grade resin you are buying. Some companies can supply a 25ltr bag of resin for as little as £50, BUT at this price it would typically be regenerated resin (recycled) so it wouldn't last as long as virgin resin. quote]Recycled resin can last longer than new resin, depends on how well it is rinsed, and how long it is stored in the bag. Regenerated resin is separated, and then recharged in exactly the same way as new resin is, it is more environmentally friendly as it is being reused. I wouldn't think twice about buying it especially if it were cheaper than new resin.
Peter Fogwill
Posted by Pure_2o (Pure_2o), 20 November 2003
Peter is obviously an advocate of regenerated resin, the problem is that each time resin is regenerated it looses a little bit of its potency and thats a fact. My company deals with one of the biggest resin rengen opperations based in California, we know that when you buy regenerated resin you simply do not know how many times it has been regenerated in the past. Even if you send resin away to be regenerated the process is done in bulk so your resin is mixed with other customers resin that may have been regenerated many many times. The price is always a good indication you simply cannot get away with charging the same money for regen resin as virgin resin, it does not last as long and customers would complain about being ripped off!Posted by peterf (peterf), 20 November 2003
on 11/20/03 at 09:56:56, Pure_2o wrote:
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I don't buy or sell regenerated resin, but I would if the price was right for the customer and me. I have used regenerated resin that I have done myself and found it to last just as long as new stuff, if not longer.
Check out the site below, and look at the paragraph just above user tips.
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/g_deutschmann_instruct.html
If you can't click on the link here is what they say...
>A recharged mixed bed DI cylinder, in most cases, will remove contaminants for a longer period of time than the original unit as packaged by the manufacturer. <
Neutralization has more chance of happening if the resin is stored for a long time.
Peter Fogwill
Posted by elfords (elfords), 20 November 2003
We have always been told that once the reading starts rising above zero then thats the time to be changing it, so its interesting that you have let yours go as high as 400, our local tap water is only 260 so by what your saying we may as well just use our tap water, I wish I had known that before it would of saved a great deal of expense! So whats going on I am interested to find out more
Posted by elfords (elfords), 20 November 2003
Steve,I totally agree with what you say but I guess seeing as there is know easy answer then its best to er on the side of caution, by the way we have not had too change our resin in nearly three years! I am surprised it has lasted so long but our purification plant must be doing such a good job that the resin has very little to do on the final polish, in case your wondering yes I do regularly calibrate my TDI metre so all is correct, has save a bob or two
Posted by easycleanwindows (easycleanwindows), 20 November 2003
do you have mixed bed resin you refill fro 25 litre bags?or is it different for reach and wash we have tuckerPosted by elfords (elfords), 21 November 2003
yes we use mixed bed resin from 25 litre bagsPosted by Central (Central), 28 November 2003
I dont know anything about these systems as Im just looking into buying one but Id guess that the reason it cleaned ok was because youd already been cleaning it with a pure water system on previous cleans and that the window wasnt very dirty anywayPosted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix), 18 December 2003
ALL RESIN USERSEvery chemist knows that quality Virgin resin will last the longest in tests against regenerated equivilent so the chap from Pure 20 who works for OTT-Ionics network is correct in his first assertion.
Problem is, it has to be the best resin. Dont take my word for it, trawl the marketplace of big pre treatment plant manufacturers who use resin by the tonne..! they will invariably tell you that the best resin available for the window cleaning application ie. DE-ION, DE-MIN etc, worldwide, is ROHM & HAAS MB. Coincidently, BRODEX stock it all the time for £65 per 25L, thats the cheapest in the U.K, I know, I've looked everywhere..!
DOM
Posted by pdhanson (Silly Philly), 19 December 2003
Regarding resin,When I used to work in a lab, we had our own de-ioniser that we used to purify water. When it was exhausted, we'd simply make up the chemicals and regenerate it ourselves. It wasn't difficult at all. It needed about 10 Litres of Sodiom Hydroxide Solution, and 10 Litres of Sulphuric acid solution.
It was quite easy to flush and then rinse the tanks, and the total cost of those chemicals was not more than about £10
Afterwards the resin was fine for about 10-11 months.
Surely this is the way to go, rather than buying new resin at £80 a go every time?
It would require buying the two types of resin seperately though (Not "mixed bed"), and it would need to be kept in seperate tanks, but this is not a difficult problem is it?
Peter, you make these contraptions - what do you think?
Philip
Posted by Polepro (Polepro), 19 December 2003
Silly,How do you handle these acids safely outside of a laboratory environment? And how would you dispose of the harmful waste in complience with environmental legislation?
Tom
Posted by peterf (peterf), 19 December 2003
on 12/19/03 at 01:41:27, Silly Philly wrote:
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I am not an industrial chemist but the solution I used to regenerate resin, one half the caustic, when applied to the mixed bed resin separated it. The chemicals are dirt cheap but at the price resin can be bought for in bulk, it is not worth the hassle of a supplier doing it themselves, you also have large postage cost for the customer getting the spent resin to you. It may be worthwhile doing it for yourself though, if you spend a lot of money on it.
Peter
Posted by APS_PureWash_Sys (APS_PureWash_Sys), 19 December 2003
Peterdon't you think you are taking this a little to far?
have you ever seen what caustic does to the human body? in the wrong hands this stuff is unforgiving I have seen what it can do. I once soar a cleaner put hot water into a bucket I did not know he had put cautic in the bottom and it blow up all over him and that man was scared for life. think of the heath and safety issues here!
okay these chemicals may be cheap but what price do you want to pay? Scared for life for the price of a bag of resin
Andrew
Posted by Mike_Boxall (Mike_Boxall), 19 December 2003
Despite Andrew's only other contribution to the Forum being an advert for his own system, I have to agree that it is not a good idea to even consider messing around with Sodium Hydroxide and / or Sulphuric acid!!!!!!Regards
Mike
Posted by peterf (peterf), 19 December 2003
on 12/19/03 at 10:23:33, APS_PureWash_Sys wrote:
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I said it may be worthwhile if you spend a lot of money on resin, the person doing it would have to be very careful while handling the caustic and acid, the caustic is the same solution that is used for clearing blocked pipes etc, it is being used all the time.
It is up to the individual to read and follow all the safety guidelines on the chemicals handling and using instructions.
Peter
Posted by pdhanson (Silly Philly), 19 December 2003
yes this is a consideration.I used to do it all in a fume cupboard. The NaOH does give off a rather nasty fuming white vapour when you do it, because the concentrations are very high. (20M as I remember)
silly
Posted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix aka BRODEX), 23 December 2003
Mike BoxallCan I agree with the sentiments expressed that regenerating resin has serious safety issues. Having worked in the industrial chemical sector for 16 years, chemicals do not sit well in the domestic environment, where children, pets and DIY'ers are present. I've seen enough accidents over the years through chemical misuse to last a lifetime. I'm not trying to be a kill joy or stop someone saving some money, the correct chemicals involved are hazardous. We as a company do not regenerate resin and have no vested interest, however, we do volunteer what we hope will be perceived as good advice.
Posted by zymotik (zymotik), 20 January 2004
Hey, isn't Sulphuric acid what builders use for cleaning compo (cement) off bricks after a job? It fizzies a bit, but only a stupid idiot would try drinking it, putting it in a different bottle or leaving it out for the kids in a bucket. Deeeeerrrrr!! Both these acids are standard household chemicals, I know of far worse things that could blow ya hands off if ya mixed the wrong ones (i.e. weedkillers/fertilizers/sugar...)
Posted by pdhanson (Silly Philly), 20 January 2004
I was actually wrong about it being sulphuric acid, it is actually Hydrochloric Acid used to recharge resin. It is the same strength (a "strong" acid as opposed to say vinegar- a "weak" acid)However, HCl is very volatile and vaporises in air. The vapour is hydrophilic, and dissolves in any moisture that is near to produce a very concentrated solution.
As there is moisture in your eyes, nose and throat, it needs to be handled with care, at least an artificially ventilated environment, at best a fume cupboard.
Silly
Posted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix aka BRODEX), 20 January 2004
Fester Adams....?Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 20 January 2004
DomAs in Uncle, brother of Gomez
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